From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #604 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Sun, 28 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 604 In this issue: the_dojang: Hapkido Dobuk bottoms with cuff? the_dojang: Hapkido Dobuk bottoms with cuff? the_dojang: War the_dojang: Looking for a school in Frederick, MD area/DC area the_dojang: Judo as an effective self-defense art ? the_dojang: from the Kukkiwon's website the_dojang: M.A. = "Methods to find Answers? the_dojang: Re: Funakoshi and karate Lite? the_dojang: Sorry about the knock on forms the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:11:43 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Dobuk bottoms with cuff? Jack, I picked up one of the dobok with a draw string cuff on the pants in Seoul at the Sang Moo Sa store last summer. I know you were just there as you sent me a email that day from Seoul:) Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: bredfield Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:16:53 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido Dobuk bottoms with cuff? Hi Jack, They seem to remind me of Kungfu Style pants I have seen , maybe I am remembering wrong, also the black ninja pants I think have those bottoms. maybe you could find them in colors of your choice. Bernard ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 05:01:56 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: War Hello Ray: This was sent to me by one of my female students, I wanted to share it with the folks on the list because I think we can use a laugh. Sincerely, Rudy > How To Win The War In Afghanistan: > > Take all American women who are within five years of menopause - train > us for a few weeks, outfit us with automatic weapons, grenades, gas masks, > moisturizer with SPF15, Prozac, hormones, chocolate, and canned tuna. Drop > us (parachuted, preferably) across the landscape of Afghanistan, and let us > do what comes naturally. > > Think about it. Our anger quotient alone, even when doing standard stuff > like grocery shopping and paying bills, is formidable enough to make even > armed men in turbans tremble. > > We've had our children, we would gladly suffer or die to protect them and > their future. We'd like to get away from our husbands, if they haven't left > already. And for those of us who are single, the prospect of finding a good > man with whom to share life is about as likely as being struck by > lightning. We have nothing to lose. > > We've survived the water diet, the protein diet, the carbohydrate diet, and > the grapefruit diet in gyms and saunas across America and never lost a > pound. We can easily survive months in the hostile terrain of Afghanistan > with no food at all! > > We've spent years tracking down our husbands or lovers in bars, hardware > stores, or sporting events...finding bin Laden in some cave will be no > problem. > > Uniting all the warring tribes of Afghanistan in a new government? Oh, > please ... we've planned the seating arrangements for in-laws and extended > families at Thanksgiving dinners for years ... we understand tribal warfare. > > Between us, we've divorced enough husbands to know every trick there is for > how they hide, launder, or cover up bank accounts and money sources. We > know how to find that money and we know how to seize it ... with or without > the government's help! > > Let us go and fight. The Taliban hates women. Imagine their terror as we > crawl like ants with hot-flashes over their godforsaken terrain. ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Looking for a school in Frederick, MD area/DC area Looking for a cool school in Frederick, Maryland and DC area. Here is my wish list for a school: - - Little if any forms. - - Many real life drills. - - Using realistic, urban oriented weapons. - - Not too hung up in learning about traditions, cultures, what Korean Kwan or other political mumbo jumbo. - - Boxing, judo, hapkido, stick fighting, knives, bombs, machetes, etc. cool. - - How to deploy, get in and get the heck out. - - How to deal with muggers, juiced up junkies, and armed attackers. - - How to deal with assault specialists who want my money and on are crack or some other drug. - - Not worried about fancy smancie kicks, breaking boards, Hyungs, Myungs, or fungs. - - Realistic drills, throwing techniques, batons, knives, guns, daggers, belt knives, boot knives, kerambits, canes. Yes, good. - - Don't want tournaments, association fees, or worrying about impressing Mu Guy Gai Pan. - - After the introductory respects, do not want to bow before every drill or technique. Want to test under realistic life assaults. Forget about how many Dans I can attain. - -Want good bag drills, good sparring techniques, e.g., how to target knees, eyes, groin, face, and other important areas. - - Don't want to deal with Affiliated Credit Association or other A-hole agencies who charge me a late fee if I am one day late. - - Want an instructor who will work with me on my limited schedule. After all, I have a life. I am a father, have other interests, and work 10 hour shifts. - - Learning how to use concealed weapons also good. In short, I have about 10 good years left. Doc told me to take it easy. But I attract trouble. So, don't have time for worrying about what Hyung is well balanced or properly done. So, got any references or referrals ? Thanks, McD... Disclaimer: The above request is submitted by a sole practitioner. This individual does not diminish the wishes or training practices of other artists. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:12:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: Judo as an effective self-defense art ? This question follows my query on recommendations for a good martial arts school in my area. I recently noticed a Judo club on an Army base where I live. How effective is Judo as a self-defense art ? Do Judo practictioners practice forms ? As you can tell, I have been doing forms since 1980 and I am fed up with them. Just want self-defense techniques. Many thanks. Disclaimer: The author of this email does not diminish or denigrate the practice of forms. Send responses privately or publicly. The author will not engage in any heated discussions. He is merely seeking facts. McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: the_dojang: from the Kukkiwon's website Taken from the Kukkiwon's website at http://www.kukkiwon.or.kr/eng/promotion/interd_eng.asp?div=5 Poom/Dan Minimum Time Required for Promotion Current Registration Fee ____________________________________________________________________________ 1st Poom no limitation US$ 70 1st to 2nd Poom 1 year US$ 90 2nd to 3rd Poom 2 years US$ 120 3rd to 4th Poom 3 years US$ 150 1st Dan no limitation US$ 70 1st to 2nd Dan 1 year US$ 90 2nd to 3rd Dan 2 years US$ 120 3rd to 4th Dan 3 years US$ 150 4th to 5th Dan 4 years US$ 300 5th to 6th Dan 5 years US$ 350 6th to 7th Dan 6 years US$ 450 7th to 8th Dan 8 years 8th to 9th Dan 9 years ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:40:42 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: M.A. = "Methods to find Answers? Dear Patrick: ".....For example, believing killing can be a tolerable act, does not mean "In all ways in all cases!" And of course, if you cannot accept the act of killing then one need not qualify the how...." ".... to stand behind ones convictions when faced with rabid discrimination, jail, separation, injury or death are the clearer tests of commitment (again for either side of the argument). The assesment and appreciation of strong commitment can be made independant of the morality issue...." "...These are the three issues I was hitting. 1) An individual must make a rational moral decision, if they desire to define their participation as a citizen outside the norm. 2) Society must assign expectations in a rational equitable manner to all citizens. 3) The society should judge the rational aspect of a dissenting individual's argument without discrimination against the moral aspect, to define the acceptability of the individuals decision....." Within obvious limits I think we approximate each others position. I can imagine both of us hold both the society and the individual accountable for the choices that they make. Now, we who study the martial ways, specifically Korean martial ways, have chosen to find some methods for identifying the answers to meeting these questions in the codes and training that we follow. This brings us around to an earlier question that I asked (this is going back quite some time, now) as to what the responsibilities are of people who present themselves as MA teachers to assist the students in developing the skills necessary to address these sorts of questions. Earlier (about 4 or 5 DD #-s) someone asked a question about what degree to which a MA teacher need get involved with a students personal problems. I think drinking behaviors was one of the items mentioned. While some might not see this as on the same level as what we are discussing here, I wonder if at some point all of these life-changing decisions might not come back to the same matter of character development. If I am poor and I make the decision to deal drugs so that I can have wealth regardless of its impact on my community, is this so very different from a person who is angry and elects to kill to address that anger regardless of the effect it has on another? On the one hand I think we can return to the three points that you presented above. From another place I wonder what the responsibilities of community leaders to educate the individual so that they can resolve this question for themselves. Put another way, we talk about expectations and values of the society, and we talk about values and expectations of the individual. There is a flavor to this discussion that seems to suggest to me that we are talking about the two as though the individual is not unlike a b rolling around inside of the society barrell. I suspect that what I am advocating is greater interaction and effect between the two and I am suggesting that the teacher (in this case the MA teacher) has a responsibliity to educate both society and the individual how to make that happen using the art which the person teaches. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:57:34 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Funakoshi and karate Lite? Dear David: "..... You did not find Bunkai in Shotokan until very recently. This is because it was created for school children and military basic trainees and not meant to be a real Do. Funakoshi wanted it to be a Do but after he interested it to the universities in Japan the imperial Japanese government took it over and used it to spread their miskewed version of Bushido so as to rally the people to their war effort...." >From what I read on the SABAKI Net some months back, I think Miyagi or Motobu was the first person to introduce the idea of BUNKAI ("analysis")to the karate arts. I was given to believe that OS Funakoshi modified his approach to karate instruction in deference to the authorities in Japans' educational system desire to have an activity that encouraged militancy without producing injury or endangering the students during training. Features such as repetitive punching from the hip and a more superficial interpretation of kata, along with an overall character-development vs combat application approach seem to have drawn harsh criticism from personalities back in Okinawa at the time. Come to think of it, I wonder if thats why practitioners of Shotokan and TKD both have routinely had to dip into arts outside their practice such as Hapkido, Aikido, Judo, Yudo, etc to fortify their hoshin sool (self-defense) techniques. I seem to remember something about Gen. Choi encouraging TKD students to investigate Hapkido for ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:31:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Sorry about the knock on forms Sorry about my slight knock on forms. Correction: Forms are good. However, I am a little annoyed at my school. To advance you have to know x number of forms and weapon forms. OK, no problem. But, the teaching of the forms is catch-can. Sporadic. So, guess I have to get someone and video tape them. Cause this is holding me back. I recall one school in California where the teacher would include one form in the beginning of every class as part of a warm up. Not here. And, time is running out. Like I said the Doc gave me the 10 year time limitation. I attribute my diatribe to Daylights saving time change. That time of the year. Bye, McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 7:17:49 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #604 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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