From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #606 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 29 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 606 In this issue: the_dojang: Forms the_dojang: Teachers the_dojang: Looking for a school the_dojang: Re: wish list the_dojang: To Ken, instructor recommendation the_dojang: Re: cuffed dobuk hems the_dojang: Korean sword references the_dojang: Korean Sword the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #605 the_dojang: Ken's wish list the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:26:58 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Forms Hello All I'm just wondering how strictly many of you stick to what you were taught when you teach forms. What I'm saying is if you were taught a down block you would teach down block. Well my question is that couldn't that down block also be an arm break? I'm just wondering if you offer up other interpretations for movements. This is obviously not very practical for low belts, but for upper belts how many of you do this. Thanks Ken Legendre 3rd Dan TKD innae@netexpress.net ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 08:28:52 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Teachers A while back, we discussed some of our less memorable experiences as Western Instructors. It seems that looking down on non Oriental Instructors is not a Korean thing. Here is what my old friend Pat McCarthy (author of Bubishi) has to say about this very subject in his new website. > in nearly forty years of training, it has been my experience that Western > learners tend to place their Japanese/Okinawan teachers on pedestals that > they would never even consider for occidental counterparts.  Another of the > biggest myths perpetuated in karate today maintains that, "If you're not > getting it from a Japanese/Okinawan sensei, then you're simply not getting > the "REAL McCOY" Pat, IMHO, is one of the most outstanding martial artists I know, bar none. His knowledge of Japanese arts surpasses that of many Japanese Instructors. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:07:27 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Looking for a school Dang it Ken McD,, where and what I teach and work out in covers everything in that list you suggested except for one very important criteria,,, I am not located in Maryland,,, if you decide to move to the Daytona Beach area you can look me up and we will train in everything on that list!!! That list is very concise and contains almost everything that I hold important to my training and teaching. Michael Tomlinson **************************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager at administrator@volusia.k12.fl.us. **************************************************************************** ------------------------------ From: BTBEACH@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:49:27 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: wish list Ken try the Kindai Ryu Jiu Jitsu Dojo. They have locations that may be convenient for you, ie Navy Medical and Fort Myer. There may be some bowing etc. but I don't think it is over done. You can check them out at http://www.kindairyu.com/ or call Julio Zarate ( Navy Medical) at 301-798-0229 . I had a friend train there and he enjoyed it - brutal techs. Good luck Ken and you know you're always welcome at Jin Pal Hapkido :) PS NIH also has a Judo club - it is sport oriented though. ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:32:37 EST Subject: the_dojang: To Ken, instructor recommendation Ken, Sammy Franco is in Maryland. Not sure how close he is to you, or what it costs to train with him. (he does more private instruction than large classes) But from your list, what he teaches sounds like what you are looking for. He will be doing a seminar with Richard Dimitri and Ian Hodgkinson on Nov 10-11 at the Fairland Community Center, 14 Featherwood Court, Silver Spring, Maryland. You may want to catch that if you can, and then talk to him about what other training he is giving. You can get more information from him at this number: 301-279-2244 Hope this helps, Alain ------------------------------ From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:49:56 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: cuffed dobuk hems Jere, we went to Seoul, but we ended up going to MOOSOOLSA instead of SangMooSa. I didnt see the cuffed bottoms there when we went. Maybe next time I go I'll check to see if they have em. ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:34:31 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Korean sword references Creed71963 wrote: " Is there any authoritative writing on the background of the Korean sword out there?" In my experience I would have to give a "No," as my answer if we are speaking of English sources and from the looks of things, Korean sources as well. About the only thing I could recommend would be the English translation of the Muye Dobo Tongji (www.turtlepress.com) which shows examples of general blade types and their associated techniques, in use in 1789, as based on a text written in 1599. As someone living in Korea to study Korean sword, and as someone who has used both Korean and Japanese blades, I would like to offer my $0.02Cdn. I'm not sure there is an authority on Korean swords. There is essentially little difference between items seen in the museums of both countries, and what is being mass produced for martial artists and collectors, in terms of dimension and format. (Quality is a whole other matter.) The actual, national differences are basic and relate more to degree of curvature and length of blade. The biggest thing present is confusion. Many top level practitioners of the sword cannot even agree on one common set of nomenclature. On top of this, the Korean market is flooded with contemporary Japanese imagery so the public seeks swords which are built on those fictional or trendy designs. Still, small relatively insignificant, differences persist. Historically, as you related in your post, blade design was as personal and varied as in the West. Mass production was not a deciding factor in blade design. As an example of difference: There is generally more lateral flexibility (bending the sword from to the side) in a Korean blade. Korean blades tend to be a little bit longer and have slightly longer handles. Apart from that, you cannot really see a difference and these differences are not really noticeable unless you have one of each. In my opinion, anything which tries to demonstrate a substantially classified difference between the two nations' swords is trying to build a m arket rather than promote history. I'd like to be wrong on this point. I have frequently seen straight swords (re: the Admiral's sword) marketed as traditional Korean blades and quite a few HKD dojangs have them tucked away in the office but once again this was an individual design (as appears to have been common) and the accompanying documentation listing said Admiral's techniques for sword use, clearly show curved blades in use rather than his personal straight design. (Which is a lot less efficient than a curved design) I have also seen a very odd design (like a check mark) from a site touting authentic Korean smithing but... No. There are a few books (in Korean) which show the cross-sectional differences in Asian blade design and the intended purpose of these designs but the theory is not substantially different from established international theories on blade shape. The real kicker between Korean and Japanese sword is how to use them. I hope this was a little helpful. I too would appreciate hearing of any sources should they exist. Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ------------------------------ From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:01:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Korean Sword <> This is consistent with what I've learned. Typically the length and weight matched the user. The Japanese had a more standardized set of sword dimensions..... <> I would say buy what you like. Typically from what I've been taught by word of mouth and the few pictures I've seen Korean swords were straight and primarily (not always) single edged. The hand guards I've seen were also small to nonexistant, again apparently a matter of personal prefference. At one time in the past, I thought the KSW folks had "reproduced" a sword that would approximated 13th-17th century korean type sword, but either sold only to NGB members or stopped selling. I am Bcc'ing a good TSD friend of mine who is a bit of a historian to get more input....no promises.... If you are that interested, I have a sketch made by the Master that taught me the only korean sword form I know. He was planning on having a proto-type made from someone who could work with structural aluminum. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:08:42 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #605 Creed asked: > On a website that makes and sells swords, they have a product they call a > Korean sword. The best way to describe it, it looks like a stright blade > Katana with a smaller hand guard. I have seen simular swords, without hand > guards, used in Korean Martial Arts. Is this really a Korean sword, or just > something to try and seperate the Korean sword art from the heavy influence > of the Japanese sword arts? The latter I think. The straight sword you describe (I generally refer to that one as "the big butter knife") is closer to executioners' swords than those used in combat. It generally requires the victim to put his head on something hard and hold still. The Muyedobotongji itself describes two forms of sword combat - -- Chinese and Japanese -- of which it says that Japanese is superior. The blades described for the Chinese are the double-edged straight sword and the curved saber, while the Japanese is the katana. I didn't see the big butter knife in there anywhere. Seems like a big racket to me, although I know of several Korean styles that claim it is original to Korea. One thing you ought to know is that some of the best "Japanese" swordsmiths were actually Korean in ethnicity. The Freer gallery in Washington DC also has some nice old Korean swords. The nicest I saw was a double-edged straight sword copied straight off the Chinese. I should also note that I've been practicing the sword in one way or another for about 15 years (fencing, iaido, Chinese saber, kukri, etc.), and have been to some truly AWFUL seminars where "Korean" sword was shown. Where you see a big butter knife, run like the dickens! Slipping on my asbestos underwear now, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 7:11:24 PST Subject: the_dojang: Ken's wish list Ken, from your list it sounds like you might be looking for an FMA school. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 7:12:32 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #606 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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