From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #608 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Mon, 29 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 608 In this issue: the_dojang: Forms the_dojang: Kwok Wu Chuen/Falls the_dojang: NY School Search Re: the_dojang: NY School Search the_dojang: Hapkido in Korea the_dojang: Han Mu Do Seminar Re: the_dojang: Han Mu Do Seminar the_dojang: Korean Sword traditions. the_dojang: Japanese and Korean swords the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #607 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dizzy S." Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:47:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Forms Ken wrote: <<<>>> Ken, I'm a lower belt, BUT I just wanna pass on something that answers your question. We are taught that "a block is a strike, a strike is a block" (words of my instructor). "And something that might look like a block or a strike in a form could actually be a throw". My instructor encourages questions about this type of thing in forms. "Some techniques look down right goofy when ya first learn it, but it could actually be a very affective throw, block or strike" (my instructor's words again). He gives the "why it works" too. And, yes, my instructor teaches the forms exactly the way he was taught by GM Yi. GM Yi, and GM Kim (ITF) who trained with him as a child, taught the forms exactly the way their instructors (one was Hwang Kee) taught them. If I get the chance to teach, I would teach the forms exactly the way I learned them, also. Tang Soo! Dizzy 5th gup TSD www.imahq.net _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Dizzy S." Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:01:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Kwok Wu Chuen/Falls Hiya all. I have two questions for anyone who can answer them. I noticed that in TSD, there is take-downs, but most TSD dojangs (that I've seen) don't teach "falls". Is this the "norm" for most TSD dojangs? I learned how to fall on my own (from a HKD book and practiced at it), and now, there is certian people in class that I will not "take-down" cause they always fall wrong. I know it hurts too, cause I fell wrong learning how to fall a number of times. My second question: Anyone hear of Kwok Wu Chuen TKD? Or just Kwok Wu Chuen? I found a KMA dojang in NY, and that's what style they do. I just wanna learn more about it. Thanks in advance. Tang Soo! Dizzy 5th gup TSD _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: WojoSG@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 19:50:01 EST Subject: the_dojang: NY School Search I am relaying this third hand, so details are sketchy. A friend of a friend's girlfriend practices Karate -- she took the Gold in the Maccabi Games in Israel this summer. Could any of you recommend a school in the NYC area? She is from Mexico, visiting him in NY and looking for a place to workout. She didn't say what style -- probably some Olympic type since it was part of organized games. Thanks, Stan Wojcoski Garcia's TKD PS attempting to post from AOL 7.0 -- I wonder if it'll work? ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:43:29 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: NY School Search > I am relaying this third hand, so details are sketchy. > A friend of a friend's girlfriend practices Karate -- she took the Gold in > the Maccabi Games in Israel this summer. > Could any of you recommend a school in the NYC area? She is from Mexico, > visiting him in NY and looking for a place to workout. She didn't say what > style -- probably some Olympic type since it was part of organized games. Someone from Mexico that won in Israel and is now visiting in NYC? Sounds like they're quite a world traveler... You might check the New York State TKD Association at http://www.nystaekwondo.com. > PS attempting to post from AOL 7.0 -- I wonder if it'll work? Yep, worked great! Did you do anything special? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:15:58 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido in Korea Michael, >> Sorry Andrew, I'm not a master, << But it's good to hear from you nonetheless. >> but while I was in Korea from May 2000 through June 2001, I could notice what you mentioned. I would interpret it differently. First, martial arts in Korea in general seems to be in decline. Koreans seem to lack the patience to train on a daily basis for years on end to learn martial arts. Second, there are too many distractions that keep the general public from being interested, such as: Starcraft, FIFA (PC game), Command & Conquer, Kaoroke, HOF houses, health clubs, etc. << Yes, there is that as well. I have heard similar about Japan. I was surprised to read that the number of ma practitioners in Japan is reported to be 250,000 (I think that's right its a while since I read the post). This is far lower than I expected and puts in perspective the official and non-official warnings about the militarisation of Japan. >> In addition, like America, Koreans these days seemed are into fades, hype, trends, or whatever you want to call it. I've seen a lot of schools that teach both Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo. I've seen KHF Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo schools, as well as IHF Hapkido and Hae-Dong Kumdo schools. I've seen schools that teach Hapkido, Kumdo, Kickboxing and other combinations as well. As Korea is industrializing, Korean society is commercializing. Dojangs are competing for a fickle public. So, a lot of dojangs in order to recruit students offer multiple martial arts. IMHO, it's becoming a mess. << There is that. But on a more positive note it could also be that instructors are trying to broaden their ma knowledge and explore other mas as a way of deepening their knowledge of their core (i.e. Hapkido) art just as many of members of the digest have. There are no doubt bad instructors here but all the Korean instructors I have had in various arts have generally had a good knowledge of the art they teach. It is hard to believe that these instructors are considering offering more than one style just to gain students. Andrew ------------------------------ From: SunBiNim@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 21:09:28 EST Subject: the_dojang: Han Mu Do Seminar I noticed that no one has mentioned the Fall 2001 Han Mu Do Baton Rouge seminar yet, so I'd like to. Get a load of this: Dr. He-young Kimm is hosting his Fall Seminar on November 10th and 11th in Baton Rouge, LA. Featured instructors this year will be Dojunim Kimm and Grandmaster Park, Hae Man. For those of you who may not be familiar with GM Park, he is president of the World Chung Do Kwon Assoc. and the creator of Taekeuk Pal Jang Poomse. He is 9th dan WTF. In addition to TKD, there will be instruction on Han Mu Do weapons, philosophy, history, ki breathing, and, of course, joint locking techniques by Dr. Kimm. There will even be Tai Chi offered. Feel free to email me if you have any questions. Steve Kincade skincade@hanmudojang.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:59:59 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Han Mu Do Seminar > For those of you who may not be familiar with GM Park, he is president of > the World Chung Do Kwon Assoc. and the creator of Taekeuk Pal Jang Poomse. Has GM Uhm retired? He was the President and GM Park was Vice President of the CDK. But GM Uhm was supposed to perhaps retire at some point down the road... ?? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Hyunsook& Ryan" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:34:52 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Sword traditions. Regarding material on Korean sword traditions. I am also currently in Korea training in Haidong Gumdo. I've been here now for four years and have been training for a little over three. I have tried and failed to find material in English relating to Korean sword traditions beyond the Muye Tobo Tong-gi. I have been told by some that much of what is Korean in terms of historical documentation was lost during the Japanese occupation. I don't know how true that is, but there certainly seems to be very little available. I have a few books in Korean, but they relate to modern develoments in Korean sword arts and there is not much historical content. The fact that it is all in Korean limits what I can get from it. Most of them make historical claims but there is little actual documentation. (at least not much that I have found) I'm always on the look out for things that will help me. If I find anything I'll be sure to pass it on. Likewise, if anyone has any suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Ryan Kangnung, South Korea www.samurang.org _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:16:32 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Japanese and Korean swords Charles recently commented: > From: Charles Richards Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 06:01:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Korean Sword <> This is consistent with what I've learned. Typically the length and weight matched the user. The Japanese had a more standardized set of sword dimensions..... <> < The thought occurred to me that the Japanese had to mass produce weapons during the long civil wars, thus standardisation of weapons. However, apart from the Hideyoshi invasion, Chosôn was not at war for extended periods and thus there was far less need, or push, for standardised weapons. Contemporary thinkers, such as Yu Hyongwon, suggested ideal production figures for weapons. Although Yu was specifically talking about firearms, it is probably reasonable to use his figures for sword production as well. Yu recommended firearms production in the low hundreds as appropriate. If these figures are applied to sword as well (and why not since during peacetime weapons production would mostly be for attrition replacements) then the swords are almost hand built. Indeed, since swords were probably limited to the officer class it is very likely that sword production was very low. As to weapons size and weight, Koreans have traditionally been taller (and therefore stronger) than Japanese so you would expect Korean weapons to be slightly larger than similar period Japanese weapons. It is entirely conceivable that straight swords were not replaced by Japanese-style weapons after the Hideyoshi invasion. I remember seeing a Chosôn period fan-painting of a scholar sitting at his writing table with a long, straight sword on the floor before him. Presumably the painting was commissioned by the scholar. Just some thoughts, Andrew ------------------------------ From: DWoods321@aol.com Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:55:35 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #607 Dear Bruce, Take a look at Pat McCarthy's "Classical Kata of Okinawan Karate" this shows how the forms were done prior to the Japanization of Karate and subsequent Koreanization of it later. I also was disappointed with its history section although when one says nothing perhaps it is because there is nothing to say. Even in Grm Hwang Kee's book "Tang Soo Do (Soo Bahk Do)" it's history is short and then they go back into ancient times and just exchange the name Tae Kyon or Soo Bahk with Tang Soo Do. The only forms in Tang Soo Do that are not Okinawan are SoRim Jang Kwon, Tae Guek Guan, the YukRo's and the Chil Sang's. Take care and God Bless! Tang Soo! David Woods ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:54:29 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #608 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!