From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #609 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 30 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 609 In this issue: the_dojang: RE: Sword Literature the_dojang: RE: Falls the_dojang: RE: Falls the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #608 the_dojang: RE: ITF/WTF/UTF hyung? Re: the_dojang: RE: ITF/WTF/UTF hyung? the_dojang: Diet and training the_dojang: RE: Hyung Teaching the_dojang: Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Choi" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:33:37 -0400 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Sword Literature As I mentioned in the summer, In the Dong-A Ilbo newspaper, I ran across a book review of the book, Chosun Sebub: Our People's Traditional Fencing Textbook by Kim, Jae-Il. The retail price is 15,000 Won (approximately $10?). I'm guessing that it's an introduction to the material. I found it on the http://www.morning365.co.kr website (Korea's equivalent of amazon.com) when I did a search for Chosun Sebub, using the hangul characters. I do not believe this site has any English pages to it. I also did a web search for Chosun Sebub and got the following results. http://www.geocities.com/kkausa.geo/pa5article1.html This contains a very brief English Abstract of a paper by Rhee, Jong Rim on Chosun Sebub. http://kumdo.co.kr/sebup.htm This site has pictures, but my browser failed to produce it. http://www.kumdo.org/kumdo_school/juntong_kumdo/jun1.asp This is the Daehan Kumdo Hae's webpage on Chosun Sebub with a button to Bon-kuk-kum-bub. Chosun Sebub is described in the Chinese Text, Mu-bee-ji. When I discussed this with Andrew Pratt, he said there is a relation between Mu-bee-ji and Muye Tobo Dongji. If I remember correctly, Kim Jae-il claims that the Mu-bee-ji has a more thorough treatment of Korean swordsmanship than the Muye Tobo Dongji and I guess he implied that the Mu-bee-ji is the source of Muye Tobo Dongji. Who knows? IMHO, one should use both for research to determine what was ancient Korean swordsmanship. Perhaps our friends in Korea can tell us of the availability of purchasing the Muye Tobo Dongji and the Mu-bee-ji? (Apparently, Turtle Press offers an English version of the Muye Tobo Dongji). Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 04:29:10 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Falls Hey Dizzy, Regarding your question on break falls, I teach my students from 5 years up over to fall properly. I teach this on mats as well as a sprung wooden floor for the older students. ken tang Soo ------------------------------ From: bredfield Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:47:35 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Falls Hi, At the TSD Dojang I train in we do take downs and always teach falls, breakfalls, rolls, (till your dizzy)I wouldn't want to teach someone a takedown if I didn't teach them how to fall properly. : ) Tang Soo Bernard ------------------------------ From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:30:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #608 Andrew Pratt wrote: > I remember seeing a > Chosôn period fan-painting of a scholar sitting at his writing table with a > long, straight sword on the floor before him. Presumably the painting was > commissioned by the scholar. If that was a double-edged straight sword, then this would make sense. The "jen" as it is known in Mandarin, is a homonym of "humanity" and is therefore a symbol of the Confucian scholar. Also, all of the Chinese weapons were present in Korea after Hideyoshi's invasion. Chinese influence over Korea remained paramount until the Sino-Japanese War of the 1890s, which broke out over the "Korean question." Take care, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:51:38 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: ITF/WTF/UTF hyung? Dear Ray: "...Do you mean ITF in the above?...." Honestly, Ray, I'm just not sure. The reference supporting my comment comes from M Hee Il Cho's THE COMPLETE TAE KWON DO HYUNG (Vol 1-3) in which he introduces each volume with the same explanatory information. "For traditional values to survive they must continue to be documented as well as taught. General Choi was the first to document the 20 forms in his book. TAE KWON DO, Others have further supplemented General Chois' book, which has allowed the 20 forms to endure." (pg 11) M Cho has written a number of books including a couple on WTF BB hyung so I concluded that he must have a founding in WTF and that is where I made a connection between Gen Choi and the WTF. Honestly I have a helluva time keeping these Korean organizations straight, but the real question I wanted to ask was not actually focused on organizational affiliation. What I was wanting to do was determine which hyung can be ascribed to Japanese/Okinawan heritage, which were organized or invented by modern personalities such as Gen. Choi or GM Hwang Kee, and which can be directly identified with Chinese/Manchurian systems. M Cho cites Gen Choi as having revealed and perpetuated the 20 hyung he mentions, but he does not say what the original source for the hyung might be. The same goes for the identifying the WTF BB hyung in the other two-volume work. This probably does a better job of revealing why I am investing so much energy in this pursuit. I think a blind man could see how little emphasis or credit is given to the Chinese contributions to the Korean arts. Help? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 7:35:05 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: RE: ITF/WTF/UTF hyung? > Honestly, Ray, I'm just not sure. The reference supporting my comment comes > from M Hee Il Cho's THE COMPLETE TAE KWON DO HYUNG (Vol 1-3) in which he > introduces each volume with the same explanatory information. Hee Il Cho was affiliated with Major Gen. Choi (ITF), but I believe that now he is neither WTF nor ITF. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:27:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Diet and training A former "lurker" asked a question about diet and training. I am over the hump, age wise, so must fight metabolism issues. Diet is always important at any age. I have cut out a lot of carbos, added more protein, and stay away from potatoe chips, burgers, fried foods, and so forth: Today's diet: a. Breakfast= one bagel. (Ok a carbo). b. Lunch= Bowl of lentil soup and salad. c. Dinner= fish and small salad. Exercise= 20 swim laps; 1.5 miles jogging; 120 situps; 30 pushups; light weights for arms, legs, chest. Recently finished small weight gym in basement. Weights will help burn calories. Alternate with cardio. I have cut out alcohol intake and save that for the weekends. I have lost 5 lbs. in the last two weeks. Want to lose 10 more. Big Ken P.S. A cursory review of what works for me. Insane sense of humor also helps. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:11:38 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Hyung Teaching Dear Dizzy: "...And, yes, my instructor teaches the forms exactly the way he was taught by GM Yi. GM Yi, and GM Kim (ITF) who trained with him as a child, taught the forms exactly the way their instructors (one was Hwang Kee) taught them....." The traditionalist in me wants to take my hat off to you and your motivation. There is also a part of me, however, that would encourage you to find your own spin on teaching hyung. When I was examining the Bassai kata that we were talking about earlier, I was struck, as I compared the various Okinawan, Japanese and Korean Forms, how not so much the specific movements or techniques changed as the WAY in which the moves were executed. The Okinawan kata seemed to suggest emphasis on resilience or flexibility, while the Japanese (spec SHOTOKAN) seemed more rigid and mechanical (though the pictures of OS Funakoshi stilled seemed to have that more flexible feel). The Korean execution seemed more rigid or inflexible yet. When I teach hyung, the initial introduction is rather rigid and exact. In time, however, I expect the practitioner I am working with to "round-off" the edges and to make the hyung a more natural way of using the body while still honoring the intent of the Form. For me, I think this embodys what hyung have to teach-- making a particular way of using the body your own. Being able to teach this in not only on a physical (body), but also an intellectual (mind), emotional (feelings) and spiritual (purpose) basis is what I consider the height of the teaching challenge. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:06:14 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? "...Any opinions on "The Fighting Weapons of Korean Martial Arts" by In Hyuk Suh and Jane Hallander, Unique Publications, 1988? It has 60 pages or so on the sword as well as coverage of staff and other weapons...." My problem with what Jane Hallander has a lot more to do with her methodology as a journalist than her subject matter. I have seen a few articles and books in which Ms. Hallander attaches herself to some personality such as GM Seo in the work cited above, or Doc-Fai Wong (SHAOLIN FIVE ANIMALS KUNG-FU) and then, essentially trumpets either standard media line or whatever her sponsor is selling that day. The Shaolin book is a good example. "....Bodhidarma gave the Shaolin monks three sets of exercises...These exercises influenced Chinese martial arts so much, Bodhidarma is often referred to as the "father of kung-fu"....." Yeah? By who? Ms. Hallander has been around in the MA long enough to know that this belief system has been debunked by about every modern MA resource (see David Chow, see Adam Hsu),just like the belief that the Shaolin temples originated "kung-fu." However, that does not stop her from repeating and propagating this misinformation in her work for Unique Publications. Maybe its beyond her ability to educate readership to more accurate research which identifies Chinese Martial/Boxing traditions well before the advent of Chinese Buddhism in the 3rd and 4th Century. Maybe it is of little interest to her to accurately report the continual pattern of "lost-and-found" of Chinese martial traditions over the various generations and dynasties. Maybe, just maybe, she gets paid piece-work for what she writes, knows her stuff is pablum for the masses and wannabees and could care less if what she has published in her name performs a service or not.I don't know and I would'nt care to speculate when she is not able to explain herself. My personal opinion is that she is probably not a very bright person, protocols demanding higher standards of veracity scare her, and noone holds her accountable for her silliness. But then, thats just my opinion. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:59:37 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #609 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. 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