From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #610 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 30 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 610 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Falling in TSD the_dojang: Re: Diet and training the_dojang: GM Cho WTF/ITF? the_dojang: Taegeuk Pal Jang - Grandmaster Park, Hae Man the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #609 the_dojang: Guidance versus Pedanticism the_dojang: RE: Turning Over a New Leaf the_dojang: RE: Kumdo Stuff the_dojang: korean sword ? the_dojang: Palgue forms the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jennifer Towns" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:33:22 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Falling in TSD Dizzy, Yes, in our school we are taught to fall from sitting, squatting, and other positions. The students first slap the mats at a 45 degree angle, palms down, with chins on chest. Then we start having them squat and falling back. Then we pair them off and have them squat across, about a foot apart from their partner, and "pushing" their palms kinda like patty cake, not holding hands or anything, until one loses balance and practices falling correctly. Hope this helps. Tang Soo, Jennifer Towns 1st Dan Cheezic TSD _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Elizabeth (Libby) Wiebel" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 13:43:03 -0500 (EST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: Diet and training Diet and training has been a constant issue for me. I've always struggled with blood sugar dropping too low and consequently, related fainting spells (yes, I've seen many a doctor for this all... and we've done lots of tests, etc.). I finally got in with a good dietician, and we determined the my problem was that I wasn't eating ENOUGH for all of the activity I was doing. I was training like a madwoman and actually gaining weight... weight that *wasn't* muscle mass. It was quite frustrating... and still is. But... I think one thing we must all remember as athletes is to get enough calories so that we don't start to burn off muscle. - -> - -> From: Ken McDonough - -> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 07:27:40 -0800 (PST) - -> Subject: the_dojang: Diet and training - -> - -> A former "lurker" asked a question about diet and training. I am over the - -> hump, age wise, so must fight metabolism issues. Diet is always important - -> at any age. I have cut out a lot of carbos, added more protein, and stay - -> away from potatoe chips, burgers, fried foods, and so forth: - -> Yep... I agree... diet is important at any age! - -> Today's diet: - -> - -> a. Breakfast= one bagel. (Ok a carbo). - -> - -> b. Lunch= Bowl of lentil soup and salad. - -> - -> c. Dinner= fish and small salad. - -> - -> Exercise= 20 swim laps; 1.5 miles jogging; 120 situps; 30 pushups; light - -> weights for arms, legs, chest. I know for *my* body, that wouldn't be enough caloric intake. Plus, I have to spread my food out over about 6 meals a day... 6 little meals... never go for more than 3 or 4 hours without having at least a little snack. Helps me keep my blood sugar up, and helps my metabolism to "know" I'm not starving... so it doesn't kick into "survival" mode and store everything as fat. - -> - -> I have lost 5 lbs. in the last two weeks. Want to lose 10 more. - -> Good luck! Just be careful... listen to your body... and don't fall victim to any of the insane fad-traps... or stuff like the ephedrine (sp?) containing supplements. I've also found that adding daily multi-vitamins has helped me a lot. I take a general multi... then 1200 mg of calcium throughout the day... plus a time-realease vitamin C, 1000 mg if I feel well and more if I'm getting sick. Gotta be careful since the body can only take so much of any supplement at a time... and might just flush out if you don't disburse it over time. - -> - -> P.S. A cursory review of what works for me. Insane sense of humor also helps. Insane sense of humor helps everyone. *grin* Just my $0.02... Take care, all! Libby - -- - ---------------------------------------------------------------- Libby Wiebel | ewiebel@cs.wm.edu | http://www.cs.wm.edu/~ewiebel - ---------------------------------------------------------------- "Although the world is full of suffering, it is also full of the overcoming of it." - Helen Keller - ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: "Damian Jones" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:46:59 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: GM Cho WTF/ITF? Bruce wrote, "BTW-quick question. I pulled down GM Cho's books on the WTF hyung and didn't get any help there at all. Am I to understand that all 20 WTF hyung were developed by Gen Choi? Are these hyung unique to him or did he simply rename hyung that he borrowed in part or wholely from other traditions? Any WTF people want to field this one?" As far as I know GM Cho is an ITF stylist that has learnt the WTF Poomse and wrote a book. Not that I'm saying that's a bad thing, I think that there could be a lot to gain from studying different hyung/poomse/kata. I think that GM Cho's organisation teach both WTF and ITF Poomse, maybe somebody in the know could let us know. I think that the Taegeuk poomse (WTF) were created by the technical commitee, not too sure about the rest Koryo, Keumgang etc. This was one of the things that I was seeking clarification on in my earlier post. Damian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Damian Jones" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:33:04 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Taegeuk Pal Jang - Grandmaster Park, Hae Man Steve Kincade wrote, "Grandmaster Park, Hae Man. For those of you who may not be familiar with GM Park, he is president of the World Chung Do Kwon Assoc. and the creator of Taekeuk Pal Jang Poomse. He is 9th dan WTF." This is what I'm after... Do you know when he created Taegeuk Pal Jang? What influenced him? etc... Do you know who created the other WTF poomse? Thanks Damian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:56:55 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #609 Bruce said: >>>What I was wanting to do was determine which hyung can be ascribed to Japanese/Okinawan heritage, which were organized or invented by modern personalities such as Gen. Choi or GM Hwang Kee, and which can be directly identified with Chinese/Manchurian systems. M Cho cites Gen Choi as having revealed and perpetuated the 20 hyung he mentions, but he does not say what the original source for the hyung might be. <<< Bruce, Gen. Choi, introduced the first 24 Tul(hyung) way back when, and you can see the Shotokan influence in them. Later on he removed one of the black belt forms (Ko-Dang) and replaced it with another, Ju-Che. The WTF Poomsae took the place of the Chang-Hun hyungs, starting with the Pal-Gwe and later the Tae-Geuk forms. Where the WTF got there forms I don't know. Respectfully, George Petrotta http://taekwondo.4dw.com/ http://hapkido.4dw.com/ http://leftbehind2001.tripod.com/ http://isamartialart.tripod.com/ ISA CONSULTATION GROUP includes ISA Martial Arts, ISA Web Design and ISA Consulting Services! _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Patrick L" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:38:01 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Guidance versus Pedanticism Mr. Sims, >There is a flavor to this discussion that seems to suggest to me that we >are talking about the two as though the individual is not unlike a b >rolling around inside of the society barrell. I suspect that what I am >advocating is greater interaction and effect between the two and I am >suggesting that the teacher (in this case the MA teacher) has a >responsibliity to educate both society and the individual how to make that happen using the art which the person teaches.< Absolutely the instructor has a responsibility. You and I usually disagree on implementation. We all need guidance from time to time. The MA instructor has the unenviable position of being looked up to by some people for solutions outside their area of expertise. For that reason, we owe it to our students and society to study human nature and morality. The nature of the request for input should guide the MA Instructors response. If two people (on a student, and one an instructor) are kicking around the problem of drinking too much, that is a much different conversation than a desperate student looking to the Instructor for "solve" their problem. Guidance for a troubled individual is different than general guidance. The individual has rights, and one individual's perception can be said to be as valid as the next's. But as MAs, we don't have to, and shouldn't put up with perceptions that we consider incorrect. To coddle thinking and acts that we disagree with should not be our way. Guidance in these cases is by example, and a stern denial of alternatives. However, the MA instructor should be careful in how wide ranging they implement this philosophy. A student should answer their instructors requirements with "Yes, Sir!" An instructor should never offer an unreasonable requirement! But when push comes to shove, it will be the student that goes (sometimes they just can't believe it). When my students do something "wrong" I talk to them about it, and offer alternative ways to look at the issue. Rarely do I say - "you must do it this way!" Because if I do, I MUST be prepared for dealing with a refusal! Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:00:53 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Turning Over a New Leaf Dear Ken: "...A former "lurker" asked a question about diet and training. I am over the hump, age wise, so must fight metabolism issues..." Might I also recommend a good emulsifying agent such as a garlic supplement, kelp, or lecithin. Fat tissue tends to hold toxins picked-up over time. Rapid weight loss could easily find a higher level of toxicity in your circulatory system. Not only will an emulsifying agent help moderate serum fat/oils level, but they also encourage the body's natural ability to filter-out and expel toxins. Just my .02US. Bruce ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:30:31 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Kumdo Stuff Dear Mike: "...As I mentioned in the summer, In the Dong-A Ilbo newspaper, I ran across a book review..." Thank you very much for all your information. At one point, back about a year or so ago, there was a Korean website which had MPEG files of BON KUK GUEM BOP, CHOSON BOP and a variety of other Sword hyung, including short sword (maybe even a knife hyung??). I was able to download BON KUK onto a CD ROM but have since been unable to find the website. :-( Bummer. Of course I will be checking out as much of what you have shared as I can. There was also a website which provided the names of about 20 Rare/Antique bookstores in Korea and I have addresses for at least two that are bi-ligual which I will want to dig-out and post here as well. Thanks again for your help. BTW: I noticed that you were searching under CHOSON SEBUP. Would this be a more accurate term to use? I had been using Gumdo/Kumdo/Guem Do and had only marginal success. The was also a SSAURABI INSTITUTE OF KOREA (www.ssaurabi.co.kr )website but like Hae Dong Kumdo I think this is a relatively new reconstitution of old material. Along with this there was also a HAEDONG DOBBOB-GUMDO ASSN (http://swordsmanship.org) and a DOBBOB-GUMDO CENTRAL GYM (http://myhome.netsgo.com/dobbob). Any of this sound familiar to you? Also: Along these lines the US HWA RANG KUMDO ASSN (www.kumdo.com) (not to be confused with the assn which I belong to out of Chicago) published a history of Kumdo. Their approach, like ours, is heavily influenced by the Japanese sword such that they compete in International Kendo Federation meets (we don't). I mention them, however, because, as with our assn, their association mentions tracing its origins back to 1896 and quite a bit before. "...Until the end of the Choson dynasty, the art was practiced and taught mostly by individuals in the state military who refined and developed the art under the name "Ghihuck-Gum" (sic)......In 1896 during the era of modernization, the art of the sword, also known as "ghihuck-Gum" was selected as a manditory training requirement for the newly established police academy...." Needless to say this last sentence explains why I have been such a pest about finding out about the Kabo Reforms and what sort of guidelines the Reform directives might have contained about instituting this sword training in the newly formed police academy. Love to hear your comments if you have any thoughts on this stuff. Thanks again for all your help. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:38:14 PST Subject: the_dojang: korean sword ? I've heard that if you go back only 25 or 30 years in Korea you find no "Korean Sword" being taught, anywhere. The point being that this ancient art of the Korean sword is a fairly recent invention. Any of the grey beards out there recall if the above was actually the case, or not? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:05:19 PST Subject: the_dojang: Palgue forms On the topic of the WTF's old palgue forms, just a week or so ago I received the following from a very wise, very old, KMAer... :) "There were eight kwans at that time (since Oh Duk Kwan was actually an amalgamation of stuff) and the each came back with a form. The term "Palgue" was interpreted as "eight ways" or "eight variations". What is currently done as #7 was originally #5 and vice versa, but other than that there have been only a few changes. Another interesting thing about these forms is that there was no terminology difference between a middle inside or a middle outside block, so many of the palgue innovators can't seem to remember whether a middle block was one or the other, so they just change it every now and then." Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:16:02 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #610 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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