From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #612 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Wed, 31 Oct 2001 Vol 08 : Num 612 In this issue: the_dojang: vitamins the_dojang: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) the_dojang: Sword the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #610 the_dojang: Wise, Old, KMAer the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:32:06 EST Subject: the_dojang: vitamins In a message dated 10/30/01 5:47:12 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I've also found that adding daily multi-vitamins has helped me a lot. I take a general multi... then 1200 mg of calcium throughout the day... plus a time-realease vitamin C, 1000 mg if I feel well and more if I'm getting sick. Gotta be careful since the body can only take so much of any supplement at a time... and might just flush out if you don't disburse it over time. >> Keep popping those vitamins and you'll eventually get a bad case of kidney stones. the only way to get your nutriants is the natural way, by eating herbs. And use garlic rather than antibiotics, it's anti bacterial and anti virus. gary ------------------------------ From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:17:05 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) Ray and others: Well, in regard to the growth of sword arts (ahem, authentic and not so authentic) in Korea you can see one piece of the puzzle on my (shameless plug) website, under the history section. While I am in the process of updating and expanding this section, the timeline is accurate. The largest group for the study of the sword is and will likely continue to be Kumdo (Kendo) in Korea. The second largest is Haidong Gumdo which has split into two different Federations, one much larger than the other. The first HDGD school opened in 1982 and the art has spread rapidly since. The bulk of the techniques in this style were derived from the combined experience of two sword fanatics. Essentially, this means that the bulk of the sword techniques/mechanics come from Gicheon, a monastic art and Shimgumdo, a style developed from a "heavenly vision" to the monk Kim Chang Sik. Both of these organizations admit to teaching the founders of HDGD but then state that HDGD is not derived from their respective organizations. Hmmm. Is this even possible? The content of HDGD is substantially different from either sword art but their influence is clearly visible. This puts HDGD in the unenviable position of being both a created art (like kyong dang and the plethora of hwarang this's and that's) and an evolved, eclectic art like hapkido. This makes it an easy target for those who seek "real and historical" if such a beast is even possible in Korean martial arts. It also keeps it from developing the sacrosanct nature of "ancient and inviolable" so that others seek to emulate and divide it rather than add to and support it. What's worse, the general attitude toward weapon based arts is that they are somehow tangential to martial arts study and sutiable only as an adjunct to something else. Add to this the dishonorable actions of those who buy and sell rank and a great injustice occurs. People disregard arts they hear are "not real". Seeing poorly skilled "representatives" of said art ply their trade further degrades public opinion. Sadly, it turns out that the curriculum of HDGD is fantastic and when properly taught, produces skilled swordsmen and women capable in all facets of sword use. Many are going to miss out due to the effect of all the crap. Many schools in Korea are choosing to follow the so-called, "American model" and teach multiple arts. Due to the current popularity (and therefore profitability) of Hapkido and Haidong Gumdo these arts are often combined - go figure. The new kid on the block these days is Tuk Gong Mu Sool. It's practitioners are also spreading multiple art dojangs with Haidong Gumdo. Remember, status is measured in Korea by money. Martial arts is a low class hobby and school owners get respect by virtue of being entrepreneurs not because they are masters. The balance has shifted away from Do and more toward "dough". Other sword groups have sprung up due to the Korean legal system denying Haidong Gumdo or it's splinter group, known by the same name, the right to copyright the term Haidong Gumdo (due to its general nature as an adjective and lack of any historical basis linking the term to the techniques, ie: some ancient text saying, "Kim Jon-Doe went out from Pyong-Yang to practice Haidong Gumdo in the mountains"). Haidong Dobub is just one example of a low dan practitioner of Kumdo and Haidong Gumdo deciding to mix the two and create their own art. There are many such schools. Outside of Kumdo and Haidong Gumdo there is precious little else to find anywhere. There are more than 20 different Kumdo associations all with cool names but all still kumdo. Kyong Dang seems restricted to University campuses. I have seen a number of sword forms in different Hapkido schools but there seems to be no actual curriculum for teaching sword technique. (I hope I'm wrong on this score but everywhere I look I see juk-to technique being misapplied to swords). So, that's my experience here in Korea in a slightly bitter nutshell. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and hope the crap doesn't get me down. Bruce asked about the availability of books and the willingness of "authorities" to point out material to students. It works kind of like this.... There are a few books we see everywhere. Anything modern and instructional that doesn't relate to kendo seems to be spoken of as crap. Things like the Muye dobo tongji are spoken of with respect but as incomplete or just a starting point - things have evolved since then. It leads one to think that the masters do not encourage independent study. A few years teaching the locals also seems to support the general impression that word of mouth and "because Master So and So said so" is fine for damn near everyone. Almost without exception, only we ask "Why? " and "Where does this come from?" Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:40:34 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Sword Ray writes: > I've heard that if you go back only 25 or 30 years in Korea you find no > "Korean Sword" being taught, anywhere. Hi Ray: My old Master "Pak" taught the basics of sword cutting as well as one Hyung at first Dahn back in the very early 70s. There may have been more; however, as a low ranked student then, I might not have had access to it. Sincerely, Rudy ------------------------------ From: "Henry Chaplin" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:22:35 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #610 > Steve Kincade wrote, > > "Grandmaster Park, Hae Man. For those of you who may not be familiar with GM > Park, he is president of the World Chung Do Kwon Assoc. and the creator of > Taekeuk Pal Jang Poomse. He is 9th dan WTF." Steve forgot to mention that GM Park will be one of the instructors at the Han Mu Do seminar in Baton Rouge, November 9, 10, & 11. I'm sure he would be more than happy to post the seminar cost and location. ------------------------------ From: "Damian Jones" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 18:59:59 +0000 Subject: the_dojang: Wise, Old, KMAer Ray wrote "On the topic of the WTF's old palgue forms, just a week or so ago I received the following from a very wise, very old, KMAer... :)" Any chance of letting us know who the very wise, very old, KMAer is? Just curious Damian _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:04:37 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #612 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!