From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #613 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 1 Nov 2001 Vol 08 : Num 613 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) the_dojang: True Rape Story the_dojang: 15th (8th women's) WTF TKD World Championships begin in Korea the_dojang: Korean WTF TKD news the_dojang: Gum Do and Tukong Moosul the_dojang: RE: korean sword ? the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) the_dojang: Korean Multi Disciplinary Schools the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dana Vaillancourt" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:11:49 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) Thanks Anthony. I enjoyed that piece of information and your take on it! > >From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" >Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:17:05 +0900 >Subject: the_dojang: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:36:40 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) In a message dated 10/31/2001 4:35:46 PM EST, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Well, in regard to the growth of sword arts (ahem, authentic and not so authentic) in Korea you can see one piece of the puzzle on my (shameless plug) website, under the history section. While I am in the process of updating and expanding this section, the timeline is accurate. The largest group for the study of the sword is and will likely continue to be Kumdo (Kendo) in Korea. The second largest is Haidong Gumdo which has split into two different Federations, one much larger than the other. The first HDGD school opened in 1982 and the art has spread rapidly since. The bulk of the techniques in this style were derived from the combined experience of two sword fanatics. Essentially, this means that the bulk of the sword techniques/mechanics come from Gicheon, a monastic art and Shimgumdo, a style developed from a "heavenly vision" to the monk Kim Chang Sik. Both of these organizations admit to teaching the founders of HDGD but then state that HDGD is not derived from their respective organizations. Hmmm. Is this even possible? >> I tried looking for an English HDGD site besides yours and have found almost nothing. Is there a listing of HDGD dojangs anywhere on the web? And there are Korean Chinese-style swords (thrusting weapons rather then the cutting weapons of Japan) in museum collection, I have found nothing to suggest that there is any Korean system that teaches this sword. Would looking at Northern Chinese Kung-Fu Systems be a good place to start? I am just curious.... Craig ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 17:08:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: True Rape Story *Coming out of lurk mode...3...2...1* Well, how do I share this? I was put into the county lockup last night for drunk driving, and was forced to partake in an odd mating ritual by four very large gang members...ok, just kidding, just kidding!!! Actually, prison rape is no laughing matter (unless it happens to the guy that stole your car). Seriously, I wanted to share a rape story with a happy ending. This happened locally a while back and I was privy to some of the details through some "unofficial" law enforcement contacts. Long story short...a lady was followed home by a very large predator, and left the front door unlocked once she entered her home (BTW, this was during daylight hours). Predator takes advantage, sneaks into the house, and jumps the lady from behind right in her own kitchen. As he pulls her to the floor, she instinctively screams out her husband's name (who happened to be at work). Predator automatically makes the assumption that the hubby must be in the back of the house, and jets out of the house as fast as he can. Fortunately, the police picked him up later. Not only did they get a matching footprint from a flower bed, but they also found in his posession the purse that he grabbed on his way out the door (bright boy, this one). Incidentally, he's since been connected with several other rapes...so that's how I know he wasn't there to swap recipes. Several interesting lessons here... 1. It's true what they say...LOCK YOUR DOORS, STUPID!!! 2. All of the physical training in the world would have been for naught...she was middle-aged, and he was a 300+ pound borderline psychopath. She told the police that she couldn't believe that a human being could be that strong. 3. Her arse (literally I suspect) was saved by pure luck. Had she yelled "help", or "please stop", or the ever-popular "aaaarrrggghhh"...it would have all been over but the crying. Instead, she inadvertantly stumbled onto a psychological ploy (specifically calling someone's name) that played out to perfection. IMO, another interesting turn on the old adage, "Yell fire...not help". Anyway, wanted to share a successful self-defense story...albeit, one that did not involve pressure points or spinning kicks. If nothing else, food for thought. Perhaps another useful object lesson for those that teach in this realm. *Lurk mode enabled...3...2...1* Craig "Spreading Peace, Love, and Understanding" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:11:55 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: 15th (8th women's) WTF TKD World Championships begin in Korea The following article announces the opening of the world championship and, more importantly, mentions the proposed rule changes. Andrew From today's KT: World Taekwondo Championships Begin By Na Jeong-ju Staff Reporter The 15th (8th Women's) World Taekwondo Championships will kick off today for a week-long competition in the southern resort island of Cheju. Approximately 1,100 athletes from 96 nations will participate in the biennial event, the first of its kind since the Korean martial art was officially adopted as a regular event for the Olympic Games. On the sidelines will be the 15th general meeting of the World Taekwondo Federation (WTF) to discuss the revision of the competition rules and study other ways to help increase excitement during competitions, organizers said. A series of measures including the expansion of the size of the match ground from 10 square meters to 12 square meters, the contraction of women's match time from three minutes per round to two minutes and giving an advantage to the player who successfully made a high-technique will be on the agenda, organizers said. With an agreement in the council, the new rules will go into effect from July 1 next year. ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:11:55 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Korean WTF TKD news Kim Un-yong Willing to Step Down as KTA Chief The following is a very interesting article giving us a glimpse of Kukkiwon internal politics. There are several themes for discussion here I think. Andrew From today's Korea Times: Kim Un-yong, chairman of the Korea Taekwondo Association, expressed his willingness yesterday to step down from his chairmanship to resolve growing disputes within local taekwondo circles. In the meeting with taekwondo officials, Kim said he would cooperate with local taekwondo organizations and officials to settle current conflicts among local taekwondo circles, which started to surface in April’s qualifying tournament for the national taekwondo team. At the time a large number of competitors and coaches raised suspicions that Kim’s relatives were among the operational staff and gave favored treatment to certain competitors. Kim has yet to give a word about the rumor besides a comment, ``I gave them food to eat,’’ which apparently insulted those who raised the suspicion. Kim, the main mover behind the drive to promote modern taekwondo and spread the Korean martial art throughout the world, has faced harsh criticism from a local taekwondoists demanding reform in the decision-making hierarchy of the association. They have also alleged that Kim wields an arbitrary clout concerning local taekwondo operations, which they claim has caused damage to the sport. (NJJ) ------------------------------ From: "Jon David Payne" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:33:50 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Gum Do and Tukong Moosul "The new kid on the block these days is Tuk Gong Mu Sool. It's practitioners are also spreading multiple art dojangs with Haidong Gumdo." Would this be the same art as Tukong Moosul? I studied under the founder, GM Yi Won Ik in 1986-88. We practiced with the Gum back then and called the practice Gum Sool. When I began practicing Tukong virtually no one had heard of it and we had one World Tukong Moosul Federation. Now there are at least three associations with three different versions of the origins of Tukong Moosul. Jon David Payne ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 00:10:45 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: RE: korean sword ? Koreans and Koreanists are pretty familiar with Korea's historic reputation at archery. Also, every archers know that Koreans dominate the sport. They've consisted won gold medals, year after year. So, when an American woman won a gold medal in archery, Koreans were shocked! To no one's surprise, I believe that both the Korean men's and women's teams won the overall team competition. (Please correct if I'm wrong.) Michael Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ From: "Michael Choi" Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 00:29:04 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The proliferation of sword arts in Korea (My view) From a guy who is so very, very guilty for long posts, thank you Mr. Boyd for your post. (Now everyone must hate me :-P About Hapkido "sword" techniques, you're right, we just cover very, very basic jook-do strikes. Some schools probably teach a little better than others. (For brevity, I'll post my school's method later.) I was told that the idea is be able to defend against a sword empty-handed and with our basic 5 weapons (short stick, staff, cane, rope, and sword). I've never seen real sword being used except for an internet video of a IHF championship. [KHF teaches only jook-do for the most part, Kidohae mostly teaches Kuk Sool (straight?) sword techniques, IHF is the only one that devotes a whole third of their curriculum to sword, Hankumdo). Michael Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S. http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp ------------------------------ From: "Master Frank Clay" Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:48:52 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Korean Multi Disciplinary Schools I disagree with Mr. Boyd. I think that since Korea has its own martial culture and America does not, perhaps he has it backwards. I do not think that Korean Dojangs imitate American ones. For example, My Chung Do Kwan Grandmaster Jong Song Kim, of Jung Il Jae Oh Kwan is not only an expert on Taekwondo, he is a high ranking Kyuk Tooki person. Then you have people like Bong Soo Han who are experts in multiple disciplines as well... no I think that in many cases these people studied what they had access to, and eventually returned to the original. Take for example, Buddhist Warrior monk Lee, Sauk Kyu. He studied TKD as a younger person in the military, as it was compulsory, and became and expert in Yudo and Hapkido, forming the only kwan recognized by both ROKYA and the KHF... and THEN became a monk later in life. Just my opinion though. Frank Clay ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 7:04:43 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #613 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!