From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #638 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Fri, 16 Nov 2001 Vol 08 : Num 638 In this issue: the_dojang: Complimenting Arts the_dojang: Re: Ground fighting Stuff the_dojang: Re: Buddhist stuff the_dojang: Hkd GM recognized the_dojang: Complimenting Arts the_dojang: Looking for school in Orlando the_dojang: Ground fighting the_dojang: ground Fighting the_dojang: RE: Groundfighting the_dojang: Position available the_dojang: Complications? the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~1000 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dizzy S." Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:22:33 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Complimenting Arts Brian wrote: <<<>>> Hi Brian. I'm an TSD'er (Tang Soo Do), and I love the art a lot. And I also wanted "ground fighting" to add to TSD. I picked jujitsu. The self defence is very similar to what we do in TSD (joint locks, take-downs, ect). I'm only a white belt in Jujitsu, but lemme tell ya, even the white belts get some kinda "ground work". Falling is a big thing as a white belt. Rolls also. I like that cause I taught myself how to fall, but taking jujitsu made it "better". I'm going to start learning "flip" falls next week. wooohoooo! From what I can see (from a white belts point of view) there is A LOT of ground work in jujitsu. I love it. I think jujitsu is a good choice. Hope this helped. Tang Soo! Dizzy 5th gup TSD 7th kyu jujitsu _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:34:29 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Ground fighting Stuff Dear Ray: "...Yes, GM Ji also teaches some ground techniques in his HKD, but what I learned wasn't anything similar to what we typically see in, say, catch wrestling or BJJ. e.g. a bridge or fighting from the guard...." The issues of "ground-fighting techniques" are subsumed under a broader category of grounded techniques, which, in turn are subsumed under techniques which address "positions of disadvantage" and are characteristic of 3rd degree BB work in hand with the development of cane skills. Of course, you are right. Its not the intent to purposefully go to the ground. For this reason alone I would not expect Hapkido arts to have the range or depth of ground fighting skills that the activities you mentioned have. However, it is important to have rudimentary skills at dealing with those situations in which one finds themselves knocked from their feet, assaulted in a reclining, sitting, or off-balanced position. Being able to execute strikes, kicks, throws etc from a position of disadvantage is a necessary range of skills. Sometimes students elect to specialize in a particular area of Hapkido instruction. I, for my part, have taken my sword training much farther than any Hapkido master would reasonably expect for meeting a promotional requirement. Some people become enamoured of cane work, and some get carried away with this Pressure Point business. I can see a case being made for people becoming invested in expanding on ground work if the spirit moves them in that direction. My hope is that they will first learn what Hapkido has to offer and build on that, rather than simply attend some BJJ seminar and then present the material as though it had somehow magically always been a part of the Hapkido arts all along. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Bruce Sims" Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 23:55:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Buddhist stuff Dear Mr. Wee: Thank you for your thoughtful response. I would like to build on something you said and see if this issue makes sense to you as it forms the crux of the problem I have mentioned-- violence as it relates to Buddhism ---. That issue is the matter of the supremacy of the individual over the community which is a very fundamental position here in the US. I mention this because I have regularly found the premise that the individual sacrifices his agenda or intentions for the good of the community is an important position in many of the cultural institutions of the Far East. I have come to consider that when things get around to the practical application of Buddhism in daily life that it is something of an advantage to have a cultural background steeped in this belief. However, here in the US it is very difficult to invite people to accept this premise as we have elevated the primacy of the individual to almost dizzying heights. Within the context of our subject, perhaps it would be a "no brainer" for one to say that a kill which honors Buddhist teachings would be the least painful, quickest and most limited loss of life possible. The minimum number die so that the WA (harmony) of the larger community might benefit. However, how does one interpret this in a society such as can be found here in the US, which purports to place the value of the individual, even an as yet un-born individual at a par or above the value of the mother or the community? Similar arguments can be made along these lines for euthanasia, and assisted suicide. Is it possible to find a Middle Path which can honor the position you have mentioned within the context of Western Society? Taken from another view, is it then possible to legitimately honor the spirit of Martial Traditions in the individual-focused culture of the West when the roots are found in the community-focused culture of the East? Or--- are we westerners all just blowing smoke up each others' pants legs? Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 02:04:15 EST Subject: the_dojang: Hkd GM recognized Wednesday night at a special dinner, Mr. Robert Young, Exec. Editor of Black Belt Magazine, presented my GrandMaster, Chong S. Kim, with a plaque and announced that he has been chosen as Black Belt Magazine's 2001 Instructor of the Year! :))) The article will be in the Jan/2002 issue. It's an honor to be part of GM Kim's association, Jang Mu Hapkido, and great to see a Hapkido person receive that recognition! Sharon ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:04:49 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Complimenting Arts I would say without a doubt that Hapkido is the best compliment for TKD. There are many reasons for this but to list a few: Kicking is close to the same and emphasized quite a bit, Hapkido is Korean so the traditions and language are matching, Hapkido can blend in with TKD and become an extension of what you have already learned, although there are some philosophical differences with the two arts you don't have to reinvent the wheel when you move from a TKD class to a Hapkido class. Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:12:54 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Looking for school in Orlando I live in Daytona Beach and I am very familiar with the MA scene in the Orlando area,, you should go to East Coast Martial Arts Supply, it is located on Colonial Dr. in the Downtown Asian area of Orlando. You will find a brazillian ju jitsu school directly across the street, but East Coast MA store is like the gathering place for all the local martial artists in the surrounding area of central florida, the two guys that own and work there know where every "good" school in central florida is and can give you some great leads for your area. If you check this place out tell either Bob or Carl that Mike Tomlinson,, the Hapkido guy suggested you come in to ask them about some schools in the area,, they are great guys and really good martial artist and they can lead you in the right direction. Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: mtomlins@mail.volusia.k12.fl.us Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:33:00 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Ground fighting I teach a ton of ground fighting in my Hapkido classes,, no offense to "traditional" hapkido ground fighting techniques but I find them to be some of the "weakest" parts of the entire hapkido curriculum. Now don't get me wrong ,, cause you guys know that sometimes I am the "crackhead version of the poster boy for Hapkido"! I have a long history of freestyle wrestling and submission wrestling and have competed and coached those sports for many many years,, the problem with "basic" hapkido grappling techniques is that there aren't any drills and transitional training to teach you "how" to get to these positions and "what" to do when these techniques don't work right away, grappling is a very dynamic type of fighting and even though it might look like people are static at times they are really quite active in the sense of touch and strategy,, this can only be learned by intense practice and many sweaty hours of drills to teach your body to react without thought, in grapppling there are a lot of shifts with your hips and legs and repositioning of your body is a greased second that make a choke capable of REALLY working and bone breaks to REALLY become effective this can ONLY be learned by drilling in certain positions,, these are the things that freestyle wrestlers practice over and over and over until it becomes second nature. When I first wrestled to give you an idea of the intensity of the practices, every corner of the wrestling mat had a huge gray plastic trash can next to it. I asked one of the older wrestlers what these trash cans were for since we didn't have anything to throw away,, he says to me while smiling that the trash cans were for puking in during practice that way the team didn't loose any mat time by having to run to the bathroom to puke,, you could just puke at the edge of the mat and then get right back into the drills, when I started coaching wrestling I also bought some of these trash cans and they do come in handy for the team and got quite a bit of use,, we don't go THAT hard in Hapkido grappling but sometimes it does get kind of intense. Michael Tomlinson ------------------------------ From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:35:02 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: ground Fighting <> Correct ones Ray:) Actually I have a student who is a BB in BJJ. He was concerned over his lack of ability in the art to handle attacks against multiple opponents and attacks from simple weapons. But his technique appears very strength oriented and he has really enjoyed the hapkido ground techniques as they do not require so much strength. My opinion only. I enjoy teaching zwaki and waki. (zwaki is defense techniques from sitting and waki is defense techniques in a lying position for non-hapkido folks). For a good example start on page 432 of Kuk Sool Daehan Mudo by Dr. Kimm He Young. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul PS. Ray, are you going to make it to Jackson in March? ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:32:57 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: Groundfighting Jennifer wrote, "Craig.... I am in the Kissimmee, FL area, 30 minutes outside Orlando. What would I look for in a good jiu-jitsu school, fpr example? These arts ar so different in origin and customs than my main, I wouldn't know where to begin." I'm going to try and get in touch with some folks in that area, and see if I can come up with a good recommendation. I'll post the results here as soon as I find something. Ray wrote, "Yes, GM Ji also teaches some ground techniques in his HKD, but what I learned wasn't anything similar to what we typically see in, say, catch wrestling or BJJ. e.g. a bridge or fighting from the guard." I have to concur with Ray here. I've seen a ton of "groundfighting techniques" taught by HKD and TKD people, and it's just not the same flavor as what you get in BJJ. Brian wrote, "Which one(s) of these "grappling" arts best compliments TKD. I realize opinions will vary with each individual. What I am looking for is what is your opinion as to which "grappling art would best compliment TKD and why." You won't find one that will "naturally" complement TKD. It's up to you to incorporate what you learn into your "personal style". If forced to make a recommendation, I would say find a competent GJJ/BJJ instructor. I would also recommend finding one that spends adequate time training both with and without the gi. That is my preference, but there are many instructors that train 100% with the gi. Likewise you may find a grappling school that owes it's lineage more along the lines of Catch, or Shootwrestling...these schools typically train 100% of the time without a gi. You'll figure out your own preferance only after you start...just jump on in and have fun. Craig Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:27:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Position available Forwading... KOREAN LITERATURE AND CULTURE. The Department of East Asian Languages and Cultures of the University of California, Berkeley, invites applications for a tenured (Professor or Associate Professor) or tenure-track position (Assistant Professor) in any period and research specialty. Candidates should demonstrate an excellent command of Korean, a deep knowledge of the literature and culture of the period of specialization, and a strong commitment to teaching both undergraduate and graduate students. The successful candidate will be expected to teach four courses per year, including, from time to time, an introductory course on Korean culture, Korean literature in translation, upper division courses reading texts in Korean and courses relating to the candidates specialization. This appointment, which begins July 2002, can be made at either the junior or the senior level depending on qualifications and experience. Candidates for an Assistant Professor position should send application letter outlining teaching and research interests, curriculum vitae, and complete dossier. Candidates applying for an Associate or Full Professor Position should send the same materials as above, but provide the names and current addresses of at least three referees in place of the dossier. Applications should be sent to: Chair, Korean Search Committee, Department of East Asian Languages and Cultures, 104 Durant Hall, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720-2230, postmarked by December 1, 2001. The University of California is an Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity employer. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 7:46:20 PST Subject: the_dojang: Complications? ummm... complications??? Looks like yet another person got in trouble 'over there'. When will they learn? ======================================================================= Forwarded message: Dear Sirs; It has been brought to my attention that an email I sent to unknown addresses, from email(s) I had received, was posted on the Dojang Digest. I am not a member of your list. The only listserve I am a member of is taekwondo-net-digest. I am not a member of the Dojang Digest, and object to this unethical conduct in misrepresenting to the world that I am a Dojang Digest list member. For sending email to the addresses of people I don't know, I appologize. I had no idea that it would cause so many complications. Sincerely, ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 8:01:16 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #638 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!