From:      the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
To:        the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com
Subject:   The_Dojang-Digest V8 #668
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The_Dojang-Digest             Thur, 6 Dec 2001          Vol 08 : Num 668

In this issue:

       the_dojang: FW: Upcoming Open House and Demo at Chun Do Kwan-Master  
       the_dojang: ISA Open 
       the_dojang: Workout stuff and ...
       the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #667
       the_dojang: Re: Stretching
       the_dojang: your position is clear, just not the ONLY one.
       the_dojang: Re:   Chun do Kwan Demo
       the_dojang: Burrese www site /stetching
       the_dojang: Korean training methods
       the_dojang: Is Weight a Issue
       the_dojang: .
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Diane C. Wall" <dwall@harbormortgage.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:46:48 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: FW: Upcoming Open House and Demo at Chun Do Kwan-Master  

Although there will be no "arrow catching" or lying on a "bed of nails",
as discussed in recent thread on the digest,
I am pleased to be one of the many students participating in the First
Open House and Hap Ki Do Chun Do Kwan Demonstration with Master Whalen.
Many of us have recently returned from Extensive Training and Black Belt
Testing with Master Yu, Master Won, Master Lee and Master Whalen of Chun
Do Kwan in South Korea.   
 
Along with our other dedicated adult HapKiDo students, I am especially
impressed with the progress of the HapKiDo Kids Class which Miss Maureen
Cully has worked so hard in training and developing her students.  It is
a pleasure to see the younger students' enthusiasm and their developing
skills as they work with her week to week.  These youngsters are the
future of Hap Ki Do and our community.
 
Anyone in the area welcomed to join us this Saturday, December 8th.  I
will try to attach the flyer for this event.
 
Diane Wall
Newly Promoted 1st Dan, Seoul, South Korea
Hap Ki Do Chun Do Kwan

------------------------------

From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" <martialarts2000@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:16:17 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: ISA Open 

This is to let all of you know that the First Annual International Sungja-Do 
Open Tournament will be held in Rochester, NY, USA on May 17th, 18th & 19th. 
This will be an open event and there will be point fighting and full-contact 
fighting. Weapons and forms too. As we are in the planning stages right now, 
more info will be handed down at a later date. You may call Master Jonathan 
Quinones, the NYS rep at 1-866-ISA-4NYS for more info.

George Petrotta
Director of the ISA
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------

From: Ken McDonough <maganda44@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 11:20:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: the_dojang: Workout stuff and ...

Yo, I ran into this site why lookin' up some weighlifting information.
Pretty good site and the guy is an ex Air Force puke. So, an honest approach
to bodybuilding and I love the dude's sense of humor. I have already taken
some of his ideas and have broken down workouts into different days: 

<WELCOME to my natural weightlfting truth page. This page was created,
because most other bodybuilding pages charge for information or have some
hidden agenda to sell you worthless goods. Not here. Thank you for choosing
my link.  http://members.surfsouth.com/~figarola/

Also, Mr. Weller was correct. The director was John Waters. Try this site
after you work out. But, a little on the dark side. He he.

http://www.flf.com/pink/

Ken McD...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping.
http://shopping.yahoo.com

------------------------------

From: Dave Weller <dweller@greatbend.com>
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 13:26:15 -0600
Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #667

Mr. Sims wrote:
From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov
Subject: the_dojang: RE: Abuse stuff
Dear Ray: 
"...Others you can think of?..." 
I have not experienced this personally but I understand that some
instructors still carry a juk-to with them around the classroom and use it
to "correct" peoples posture. I have a problem with anyone hitting or
throwing a student to make a point let alone hitting them with a bamboo
sword. Has anyone else had an instructor use a student as an "example" in
order to correct a class? 
Best Wishes, 
Bruce 
*****
Last Thursday at my weekly class I carried a small kicking target in each hand (the softer foam filled ones) and bopped students (the 2 worst offenders were nice little six year old white belts, although I was forced to tap a first gup once) on the head every time their hands fell to their sides during floor exercises. I did it in a "fun" manner, not hitting hard, just enough to get their attention. Amazing how well they responded to it. After a few taps all I had to do was raise the target and the hands popped up! One of their Dads was observing and he laughed every time I bopped his boy. I think this was a good method for increasing the awareness of where your hands are during training, and I hope it doesn't fall under the "abuse" type of training.  My master does ocaasionally carry a bamboo stick around and tap you to help correct posture, foot position, etc... but never hard enough to hurt. Again, it is more of an attention getter than a tool of pain compliance.  You might also find a foam covered stick swooshing towards you after a turn during floor exercise just to be sure you're paying attention and are prepared for attack after a turn. Still, no pain but a good way to force students to keep their guard up.  I don't find any of these methods cruel or abusive, but it's the way we've always been trained and hasn't caused anyone an injury.

dave weller  student   wtf tkd

"Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline.
Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself."
Myamoto Musashi

------------------------------

From: Dominic Mitchell <dommit@videotron.ca>
Date: 05 Dec 2001 15:13:09 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Re: Stretching

Kurz also stresses the importance of a proper training program. In
that respect stretching does equate warm-up.  The serious
stretching part should be done after the main workout not before.  

I have greatly developed my flexibility.  Mainly, I will stay 15
minutes after the class ends to stretch properly.  Not too many
stays for that important stretching part.

Cheers.


"Kenneth W. Legendre" <innae@netexpress.net> writes:

> Hello
> 
> Just want to make a little comment about the stretching issue. The 
> ability to do the splits does not influence how high you kick. If you 
> want that in writing you can look for the book written by Kurz. Several 
> people on the list have mentioned him before and he come highly 
> recommended, not by me but by others on the list (although I do 
> recommend him). I am also proof of his philosophy. I am not any where 
> near able to do the splits (front or side), but given the opportunity 
> I'll gladly kick to the head. Do your best and if thats not good enough 
> for your instructor I recommend you look elsewhere.
> 
> Good Luck
> Ken Legendre
> 3rd Dan TKD
> 8th gup HKY
> innae@netexpress.net
> 
> ------------------------------

- -- 
Dominic Mitchell

------------------------------

From: "Patrick L" <musashi1953@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 14:18:33 -0800
Subject: the_dojang: your position is clear, just not the ONLY one.

Dear Mr. Stovall,

>I wasn't referring to punching, kicking, limb twisting,grappling, or any 
>other legitimate display of martial arts skill.<

I wasn't either, I was subtly trying to let you know that YOU do not get to 
define what constitutes "legitimate displays of martial arts skill".

>My challenge to you would be this...stop trying to tear apart a position 
>that I never stated, and give some logical reasons why "mystique" is good 
>for the arts.<

Truly, I am not trying to tear apart a position you never stated.  The issue 
is simple, and I stated my position simply.  Hopefully I did it without 
insulting the beliefs, character, or morals of the other side.

You ask me to articulate my reasons why I believe a sense of "mysticism" 
about martial arts is of value, and why it is ok to present them in 
demonstrations, I submit the following;

First - A Demonstration is just that.  It is not an effort to show a "real" 
environment, it is an entertainment.  It is a showing of skills, under the 
best possible conditions to excite and interest an audience.

Second - Deceit is a martial technique.  There are many levels of this 
technique.  If a combatant believes I can "magically" beat them, then I have 
an advantage, and will not have to fight a person who has convinced them 
self they have lost.  If a combatant believes that their best shot had no 
result (not showing pain), then they may be demoralized and give up.  
Presentation of deceit must be practiced.

Third - Accomplishment of a task successfully in an stressful environment 
builds confidence.  It doesn't matter that the task may be a "simple" board 
break.  Have you ever felt the pain of an unsuccessful board break?

Fourth - Teaching and keeping "secrets", enhances and reinforces brotherhood 
and loyalty.

Fifth - Who knows what element of the Martial Arts will fit the need of a 
prospective student?  When someone sees a demonstration and says; "I want to 
learn that!", I believe we have done a good thing.

Now, for those that have seen my reasons, they may well want to know why 
loyalty is important or why use deceit since it could be deemed unhonorable, 
or why this - or why that.

For those subsequent questions that begin with "Why..." I refer you to the 
comedy routine of Professor Irwin Corey; who when asked "Why is the sky 
blue?" answered;

"That is really a two part question.  The first part of the question is, 
Why.  Man has been asking why for tens of thousands of years. . . .(and he 
goes on for a minute explaining what why is, he wraps up with).  And as to 
the second part of your question; Is the sky blue? - the answer is yes!"

Mr. Stovall, like you I to have been around a few years.  Once we know most 
of the "stunts", they DO become boring. And once we know a lot of 
self-defense, and the difficulties involved in "real" self-defense, 
rehearsed routines become boring.  And after we have seen a 540 degree kick, 
a 720 degree spin and six foot high falls a hundred times - they become 
boring.  And watching two guys roll around on the mat in an "almost reality" 
match isn't my idea of exciting either.

But still I watch with a smile. I congratulate each demo team member or 
contestant because to them it is exciting, an accomplishment, and they made 
their guests happy.

Getting in the WAY,

Patrick
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------------------------------

From: Beungood@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:09:36 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Re:   Chun do Kwan Demo

Just a quick heads-up to those members of the list who are from New England, Master Hal Whalen will be having a Hapkido Demo at his Hapkido Chun Do Kwan Dojang located @ 59 Plymouth St,2nd floor, route 139 , Holbrook Mass on Saturday December 8th from 1pm - 6pm.  Hapkido ChunDo Kwan is the South Shore's oldest Korean Martial Arts School getting it's start in 1979. everyone is welcome!

Yours in training,

Jack O

------------------------------

From: Beungood@aol.com
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 17:36:14 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Burrese www site /stetching

From: "Dizzy S." <karatekid1975@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 00:52:23 -0500
Subject: the_dojang: Stretching (Ray)

Ray,

One thing that annoys me is the way the younger instructors stretch out the 
class. They try to make us stretch "cold". If you try to stretch cold, it 
hurts more. But if you get the "blood flowing" first, it's easier to 
stretch. We should be able to "warm up" the muscles first (like jumping 
jacks or light jog around the dojang or something).

They also don't let us stretch a muscle group long enough. They say "stretch 
to the right .... stretch to the left" and I'm thinking, "I just got to the 
right damn it."

I got to the point where I came in early and stretched by myself before and 
after class.

While training at Master Yu'sChundokwan Dojang in Seoul we would start our classes off with Do jin bup (my spelling may be off, Dynamic excercise) 200 pairs-400 footfalls, and a 15 minute run before we got inot stretching.  There was always some form of aerobic warm-up before we stretched and then the Big aerobic components afterward that we will not soon forget...

I checked out Alain Burrese's www site (www.Burrese.com) and it has some good articles in .  It also has his tape and books to order and I can say they are great also.

Jack O

------------------------------

From: "Andrew Pratt" <andrewpratt@ircltd.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:34:04 +0900
Subject: the_dojang: Korean training methods

Bruce wrote:

>>
I have not experienced this personally but I understand that some
instructors still carry a juk-to with them around the classroom and use it
to "correct" peoples posture. I have a problem with anyone hitting or
throwing a student to make a point let alone hitting them with a bamboo
sword. Has anyone else had an instructor use a student as an "example" in
order to correct a class?
<<

I remember a couple of fun incidents when I was training Hapkido here back
in 1995-6.

I had recently joined the club. Most of the other students were children as
is normal here. We did a normal warm-up and started kicking routines. It was
soon apparent that I was the only one kihaping. The kwanjang noticed this.
He told the class to kihap but I continued to be the sole voice.

The kwanjang went to cupboard and returned with a jukdo (shinnai) and made
everyone assume the position for push-ups. What was going to happen now? The
kwanjang started with the senior black-belt, a talented teenager. 'Why do we
kihap?' he asked. No answer. Raise your right foot.... Thwak. The kwanjang
moved down the line, same question, same result. I started to panic (I'm
sure I wasn't the only one). Was I going to suffer the same fate as the
other students. I was near the back and finally it was my turn. I babbled.
There wasn't much more I could do since my vocabulary was so limited but, I
presume, at least I said something and so was spared. I think the kwanjang
went round the students 2-3 times.

Another time, we were practising the break-fall where you jump up high and
as you come out you push out your hands and feet to land in a star position.
One black-belt wasn't jumping up high enough for the kwanjang. Out came the
jukdo. The kwanjang swung the jukdo at about chest level, it struck the
jumping student on the top of the feet. Since the student hadn't jumped high
enough, he had to do it again, and again, and again, and again, and again.
He never did clear the jukdo. Fortunately for me, this time the rest of the
students were not made to jump over the jukdo.

Now, who was it who was thinking of training in Korea???

Andrew

------------------------------

From: Tyranmarla@aol.com
Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 20:44:04 EST
Subject: the_dojang: Is Weight a Issue

I would like everyone's feed back.

Is weight an issue when you are practicing martial arts? 

I have noticed that several of the black belts at my dojang are overweight. 
Their moves are slower, but they are complete.

Is it necessary to have a body like the late Bruce Lee? Can a person be large 
and still master the skill without any problems?

Thanks

------------------------------

From: Ray Terry <raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com>
Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2001 22:10:42 PST
Subject: the_dojang: .


------------------------------

End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #668
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