From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #669 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Thur, 6 Dec 2001 Vol 08 : Num 669 In this issue: the_dojang: shin and calf area pain the_dojang: RE: My Mistake the_dojang: Sparring in Hapkido the_dojang: Warming up and stretching the_dojang: Open House and Demo the_dojang: Re: who knows their body better? the_dojang: Re: Weight the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #665 Re: the_dojang: Re: Weight the_dojang: RE:Is weight an issue? The very long skinny.... the_dojang: Re: Is Weight a Issue the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. ~900 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: c <24wide@bellsouth.net> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 01:41:28 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: shin and calf area pain Does anyone have helpful information about shin and calf pain? I have had pain that started in the center of the calf then after several weeks the upper inside of the shin are. After a few months of ice and wrapping and staying away from the high jumps etc. the pain is now mostly on the lower inside of the shin area along the bone. The surface we work on is concrete with basic flat carpet with very little padding. I have been dealing with this for about six months. About four weeks ago I stopped doing all the kicks and forms except walking through them . I still do the stretching to warm up and all hands and techniques and some falling . I have had ultra sound which seems to help. Does anyone know of any pressure points are the like that might help? Any comments would be helpful. thanks Kuk Sool DBN Chris ------------------------------ From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov Date: Wed, 5 Dec 2001 12:50:23 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: RE: My Mistake "...Are you referring to 9th DanJames Garrison of Pacific Rim HKD? If so, he is in Beaverton Oregon. Opppps. Thanks for the tip and my apologies to the state of Washington. Best Wishes, Bruce ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 08:34:29 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Sparring in Hapkido I was wondering something about Hapkido, and I know we've got more than a few beginners at it here on the list...:) Anyway, I was wondering what types of sparring are done in the typical HKD curriculum. I know HKD encompasses several ranges (standing striking, standing grapple, groundfighting), and I'm curious as to how those ranges are addressed...particularly in a free sparring format. In fact, is there any free sparring? If so, is it moderate to full contact, or is it more along the lines of controlled free sparring (or do you folks do both)? Are there one, two, and three step sparring formats similar to what can be found in TKD, TSD, etc.? How is the groundfighting tested? Do you guys "roll" like the BJJ and Judo folks, or do you rely more on prearranged technique practice? What about the large array of standing joint locks, manipulations, and throws? Do you folks "acid test" that stuff with some sort of sparring format? If so, how is safety adressed when going all out with wrist locks and hip throws? Thanks in advance for the info. Craig "Curious George" Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Craig Stovall" Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 08:47:33 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Warming up and stretching Dizzy wrote, <<>> I have to say that I LOVE the way we train in my present environment. We usually do a full-fledged workout before we ever stretch. Usually start with a 3-5 minute jog around the mat, and then go on to shrimping, wheelbarrows, buddy carries, bear crawls, shuttle runs, etc. I know my muscles are warm and relaxed by the time we get on the mat to stretch (which we do along with our push-ups, crunches, etc). I've found that this has greatly increased how limber I am, and has probably prevented numerous injuries. Contrast this with what I've experienced in the past. You do 20 jumping jacks, and then are told "Now have a seat on the floor and spread your legs as wide as you can get 'em". Ugh...not the best way to stretch. Anybody else have this experience? Craig Stovall _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp ------------------------------ From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 09:49:29 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Open House and Demo I have had the opportunity to train with my friend, Master Whalen who is an outstanding hapkido player and I have his open house poster on the wall in my dojang. If you get a chance to attend this even please do so, you will not be disappointed. You will also get a chance to meet Jack O and Maureen (Mo, in my opinion, looks like Sandra Bullock). Although Jack is a police officer, he almost once threw a hotel security guard into a swimming pool. Good self restraint:) I will unfortunately miss the event as my dojang is taking all of my attention these days but I miss throwing Jack around. I wanted to take this chance to encourage those who can make it to this event to not miss it....Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 07:36:50 -0800 Subject: the_dojang: Re: who knows their body better? > From: Ellen P > > I've been having issues with how we stretch in class > at the TKD studio I attend. Why do instructors push > so hard for all that painful stretching? Does it > really matter if I can do the splits?? They don't know better and No. You don't need to push yourself into pain to challenge your body's current state of flexibility. You should avoid actual pain as it is your body's way of telling you something is not right. At your age, 29, you have the possibility of being able to do the splits someday if you stretch smart every day. But, MA can be done without the splits. Maybe kicking tall people in the head will be difficult, but for self defense, you need to have the flexibility to kick knee level or groin. > I've been learning TKD for about a year and I feel as > if my instructor is becoming more harsh and becoming > impatient with my flexibility (even though it appears > that I'm more flexible than most of the students). > Last night he kicked me when I got scared (of injuring > myself) while he was pushing me down into a stretch > because I put my hands on the ground (we were were > stretching with our legs open trying to put our head > to the ground - touching the ground only stops you > from really stretching). He thinks I was being lazy > about the pain - but really my main concern is > injuring myself. Actually Kicked you? Ok, that was unnecessary and not the act of an instructor who wishes to challenge you, rather the opportunity to hit their students. Take your time and stretch outside of class as well to improve flexibility. > I'm beginning > to wonder if its more of a trust issue with my > instructor. > Being kicked and harassed b/c you can't do the splits would definitely bring on a trust issue. > > I practice different forms of Yoga outside of class > and the mentality is completely different - accepting > your limitations, working within your limitations, and > working toward your goal (whether that is the splits > or whatever) at your own pace. Stay with the yoga, they have the right idea. > > Am I just being a *baby* about harsh stretching? As you can tell from the above comments, no. > > > I wonder how much a 19yrold instructor can possibly > know about a 29yrold female body and how it stretches. What is interesting is that this situation is not unusual. Young instructors have limited knowledge in body mechanics, kinesiology and physiology. However, they have a BB, and that is all they need. As they get older, and acquire more education (academic and practical), they discover that they don't know as much as they thot. > > And does he care if I injure myself with this "tough" > stretching. Am I just wimping out here? Does how > much pain we are willing to accept reflect how > dedicated we are to the martial arts? Pain is not an > issue for me when I know there is a benefit. I can't > always see the benefit here except to show how much we > are willing to take and to "prove" our dedication > (coming to class everyday and participating as hard as > I can isn't enough)? Is there another way to look at > it (maybe my view is too narrow and shortsighted)? Am > I a lesser student because I would like to stretch in > a different way on my own terms? Maybe I'm starting > to burn out and the time invested, pain, injuries, and > physical ailments from TKD are starting to get to > me....and I'm just having one of those days. > ep You are the best person to decide what your body can handle. If pain occurs, not muscle soreness and you must figure out the difference, then the activity is too much or too soon for your body to handle. Listen to your body, and speak to the school owner about your concerns. If you are getting too many injuries, make sure you figure out if it is b/c you are trying to do too much too soon or something else. As a physical therapist, I have run into many MA instructors who have no knowledge of how the body works, but they know their MA well. They do exercises involving bouncing, deep knee bouncing, etc, things that are really hard on your joints, and soft tissue. Now, if the student is young, he will be more rubber and can handle exercises that are not good for his body but will probably not cause problems until he is older. Doesn't work if the body is already older. So, make sure you enjoy MA safely. Don't do exercises that put your body at risk. You need it to function for scores of years more. Spunky ------------------------------ From: Piotr Bernat Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 08:11:31 +0200 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Weight > Is it necessary to have a body like the late Bruce Lee? Can a person be large > and still master the skill without any problems? One of my students, which also happens to be an assistant instructor and my long-time friend, weights ca. 110 kg and is definitely not an Arnold Schwarzeneger type. In March he passed his 2nd Dan Taekwondo test with flying colours and his patterns were a pleasure to see (including Koryo, which is really hard to do well by a person with relatively short limbs). BTW, he does e.g. all the basic HKD flying breakfalls without any problem, and sparring him is not an easy task... Regards - -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl ------------------------------ From: Wallaces9@cs.com Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 11:03:24 EST Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #665 In a message dated 12/4/2001 9:51:29 AM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Now the colour belts are free to approach a BB, and yet for some magical reason they still seems to show respect even though it is never 'demanded' of them ;-) It is a much better atmosphere, and yet we still have strict discipline (which is essential IMHO) and even higher standards for technique. >> This is the type of school that I have been training at for the last two years and if it had been any other way I would have stopped training after the first month. In fact, there has been times that as a colored belt I have reviewed color belt forms with BBs where I was leading. There always needs to be mutiple teachers in class because the teacher cannot be everywhere. There was a time in our adult class where a lot of the black belts where teens and the adults (color belts and black belts) were constantly reminding them to behave and to do what they were suppose to be doing. This was perfectly acceptable by the teacher and the master. ' Stacey Wallace ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 8:44:21 PST Subject: Re: the_dojang: Re: Weight > Is it necessary to have a body like the late Bruce Lee? Can a person be large > and still master the skill without any problems? There is a chunky little kid at a friend's dojang. I get to see him only when I'm there to help out with the tests. Looking at him walking around you'd think, "wow, this kid is too fat to move!". Then he moves... He can fly. He can jump much much higher than you'd ever believe possible. Excellent kicks. I believe most anyone would be happy to be as competent a player as he is, regardless of what the scale reads. Of course I then wonder just how good he'd be were he 20 lbs lighter... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Gregory Giddins Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2001 10:09:12 -0700 Subject: the_dojang: RE:Is weight an issue? The very long skinny.... >I have noticed that several of the black belts at my dojang are overweight. >Their moves are slower, but they are complete. >Is it necessary to have a body like the late Bruce Lee? Can a person be large >and still master the skill without any problems? Great topic, and one that is extremely relevant to martial arts in todays society, eh? Seeing as though a major portion of the world population is overweight I would assume a good portion of our students are too.... personally, half of my adult class members are overweight. Is weight an issue in my class? Oh yeah. You bet it is. As a matter of fact, weight is the main reason most of my overweight students are training. They came to me to lose weight! And being overweight is the reason they work so darned hard in class. My 'overweight' students work harder than my 'normal' or 'underweight' students. They are truly inspiring. I would rahter have a class of 5 'hefties' than 30 'skinnies'. (Sorry, I'm not very PC.) Mostly because the heavyweights WANT to work hard for the benefits that working hard provide. The lightweights want to come learn karate, and as a general rule, anything that isn't directly related to a martial arts technique tend to bore lightweight students. A have an 8th gup woman in class who is in such good shape she is competing in a 14 mile mountianous bike marathon next spring. She frequently gets bored by light calisthenics, and a light cardio workout. So she just cruses on through the workouts, easily keepig up with everyone by giving 35% effort. Gaining nothing. Biding her time until we get to the 'real class material'. But the heavyweights are pounding away and working up a sweat every time, and loving it. They give the jumping jacks 110% of their effort. They give the squat-kicks 125%. Which student would be considered striving for mastery? As far as skill... yeah, weight is an issue here, too. You bet. An overweight student may not be able to kick as fast, or spar as long, or do as many breakfalls as a lighter student. But as long as a teacher doesn't let a students weight become an excuse for not trying, or not improving, it doesn't have to be a fatal diagnosis. It took one of my heavyweights 4 weeks to work up the courage to jump straight up to the second step of a staircase, doing squats, squat-jups etc.. But she finally did it. The first time she tried she almost fell flat on her rump, but she kept at it, and now she's working on 3 steps. And developing quite a good front jump kick, actually. This particular student lost enough weight in the last 6 months to lower her uniform a full size. She came into class being able to do full side splits (a left over result of being athletic in her youth), but it took 6 months to get her to kick higher than her own shoulder. Sure, weight affects skill. She'll probably never be able to fire a triple round kick, head high. Whereas the 8th gup lightweight can hold her leg up there and throw 6 or 8 round kicks with hardly an effort, and a bored look on her face. But a heavyweight will learn to move more efficiently, learn how to conserve strength, and how to best use his/her own mass. These things alone are valueable lessons in skill that a lightweight may not need to even consider. Yeah, I've seen heavyweight balckbelts with enough skill and mastery of their bodies to make me envious (at 6 feet tall and 160 lbs), it's possible, you bet. But does that skill come without problems? Nope. It took years of harder training and more effort than I can imaine to get them there. I've also seen heavyweights who are terribly non-impressive. Who use their weight as an excuse for less than stellar technique. I think weight is an issue in training. Actually I know it is. However, motivation is a much larger issue than weight will ever be. A motivated heavyweight is worth 100 unmotivated marathon runners in my book. As long as the teacher is willing to work with the students limitations, and the student is willing to overcome them, a person can be large and master thier skills (as much as anyone can actually 'master' anything). Greg Giddins ------------------------------ From: Dominic Mitchell Date: 06 Dec 2001 13:05:13 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Is Weight a Issue From my personal experience, it matters. Last summer I was overweight. I found myself slow and heavy to move even though I was in very good shape compare to many youngster. However, I decided to lose some weight. I have lost close to 30 pounds in 4 months. I am lighter, faster. My cardio is even better. Just think about this, my youngest son weights 27 pounds. I often carry him on my back. I definitely notice it when I get him off my back. Now think about performing in MA while putting 10-20 pounds on your back. Do you think it would not affect your performance noticeably? :) If you are 5 pounds overweight it may not make a noticeable difference. However, if you have a more serious overweight issue I would say it matter. Cheers Tyranmarla@aol.com writes: > I would like everyone's feed back. > > Is weight an issue when you are practicing martial arts? > > I have noticed that several of the black belts at my dojang are overweight. > Their moves are slower, but they are complete. > > Is it necessary to have a body like the late Bruce Lee? Can a person be large > and still master the skill without any problems? > > Thanks > ------------------------------ - -- Dominic Mitchell ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 12:45:00 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #669 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!