From: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: the_dojang-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #688 Reply-To: the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: the_dojang-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: The_Dojang-Digest Tues, 18 Dec 2001 Vol 08 : Num 688 In this issue: the_dojang: Re: Merger the_dojang: Ray was wrong? the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #687 the_dojang: Interesting news item the_dojang: Bodyfat, etc the_dojang: new poomse the_dojang: President the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #686 the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #687 the_dojang: . ========================================================================= The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to the Korean Martial Arts. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe the_dojang-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use the_dojang@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ron Bain" Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:04:23 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: Merger Hi Robert and fellow list members, Not sure why there wasn't any replies regarding your post (unless they were all personal replies), so I figured I'd give you my two cents worth on the issue, hopefully stirring up some discussion on the subject. First I'd like to say that although I am ranked in Kukki TKD, I teach a combination of TKD/HKD not exclusive to either WTF or ITF. Therefore my views are not based on a strict Kukkiwon TKD or ITF perspective, and simply convey my personal thoughts as a TKD practitioner on where I'd like to see this merger go, if indeed it happens. > From: "Robert Martin" > Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 20:04:18 -0700 > Subject: the_dojang: Merger > > What do you think would be the change for you if the ITF/WTF/Kukkiwon system > merged into some sort of super group? Without knowing the details of a merger, this is kind of difficult to answer. I've heard and tend to think the shift will still be towards the Olympic movement, with some sort of symbolic gesture being given to General Choi to recognize his past contributions to TKD. So for a KKW stylist, this wouldn't be much of a change...an ITF stylist may or may not like this direction. Various unofficial rumours (among many) include making GM Choi the president of such a merger, as well as making the Chang Hong Forms the "Official" forms of the new organization. Many will say that any form of recognition given to GM Choi would be politically impossibe due to the General's past dealings, but history suggests that most past organizational postings have been politically based anyways. I think the whole North-South unification issue is playing a BIG factor here, and will over shadow the Generals past misadventures. On the issue of the forms rumor (if this were true), I really couldn't see the Chang Hon forms become the "official" forms. Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem with this, as I personally like these forms. I don't agree much with the sine-wave motion as it seems to visually interupt the flow of the form and makes it look choppy and robotic. I much prefer to see them done without the sine wave action...(JMPO). I could see them becoming an official set...with probably the option to teach any of the official sets...ie-Tae Geuks...Chang Hon...NEW Kukki forms??? On the issue of New Kukki TKD forms..I'm not really sure what to think of that. It definitely contradicts the above rumor, and doesn't really sit well with the whole merger issue. Another interesting piece of the puzzle I guess. We'll just to wait until they are officially released to see what kind of impact they will have technically and politically. > There has been more talk (sane) talk recently on the subject amongest the > ITF membership. Visit www.itf-generalchoi.com and view the letter from Grand > Master Hwang. (Click into the news section on the main page and find the > letter.) There has been also some very slight, very private, confimation of > some of the talks. I find this letter very interesting in that it comes from such a reliable source, and that it makes some very profound statements, such as..."the unification of Taekwon-Do has become the most important issue above all other Taekwon-Do matters"...and "When the Taekwon-Do unification has been successfully completed". It really sounds like the ITF has a sincere desire to "merge", and the general tone of the message is that it will happen. It's interesting to note that very little has been reported from the WTF/KKW side, indicating that nothing is happening, or they are saying nothing. It's entirely possible that this merger talk is all rumor, and the KKW are pressing ahead with their own agenda (and new forms). It's also possible that merger talks are happening, and nothing is being said for various reasons... All in all, it seems like the timing is right if it's gonna happen...North-South relations... IOC pressure... recent change in KKW leadership. Well just have to sit back and see what happens I guess, Seasons Greetings & Happy Holidays to all. Ron Bain ------------------------------ From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:17:01 EST Subject: the_dojang: Ray was wrong? >>>But then I was wrong one other time... :) >>>Ray Terry Really? :-) I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken. :-) Alain Burrese www.burrese.com ------------------------------ From: Dave Weller Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 17:38:49 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #687 Mr. Terry wrote: From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 14:19:24 PST Subject: the_dojang: New forms Traditions are nice, many times they are great, but they must start somewhere. I say 'get out of the box' and explore new and different ways of doing things. Even if the forms are changed, I seriously doubt the Kukkiwon will attempt to visit the thousands upon thousands of TKD dojangs around to world to ensure that the pyung-ahn, kicho, chon-ji, palgue and taeguek forms are no longer being taught. But then I was wrong one other time... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com I must agree (mainly cuz I never disagree with list moderators, specially one who's only been wrong once..... which, by the way, I'd love to see the proof of) with Mr. Terry on this subject. I'd love to learn a new set of forms within my chosen style, whether they are "competition oriented" or "traditional" (whatever THAT means.) I suspect my master would then be teaching 3 sets, Taeguek, Palgwe and the new stuff... it'd be a little daunting at first, but dang, we live to learn, neh? Just a couple pennys worth, or less. dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi ------------------------------ From: "Andrew Pratt" Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 09:26:14 +0900 Subject: the_dojang: Interesting news item Dear all, Here is an interesting news item from today's Korea Herald. Did any WTF TKD list members receive or hear of this 'vilifying' email and can they post it on the list? Andrew Man accused of slandering Kim Un-yong The Seoul Metropolitan Police Agency's cyber-crime investigation unit arrested a 52-year-old man yesterday on charges of slandering Korean sports leader Kim Un-yong through e-mail distributed to International Olympic Committee (IOC) members, officials said. The suspect, identified by his family Ahn, is accused of sending e-mail on July 16, vilifying the former IOC presidential candidate and his family, to about 200 IOC members all over the world, according to police. Ahn is also suspected of posting defamatory remarks about Kim on the Internet sites of more than 20 national sports organizations. A college student, identified by his family name Park, and a 40-year-old director of a domestic sports association were also booked on charges of acting as accomplices in the libel case, police said. Officials alleged that Ahn defamed Kim out of spite upon losing the presidential candidacy race for the Korean Taekwondo Association (KTA) in January this year. The 70-year-old Kim is currently the president of the Korean Olympic Committee and the Korea Sports Council, and was re-elected as president of the World Taekwondo Federation last month. Kim, who lost the IOC presidential race to a Belgian, is currently a member of parliament. ------------------------------ From: J Hazen Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 18:39:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Bodyfat, etc : Besides the upper body and obligatory ONE BIG AB :o) a lot of my : weight is in my legs (quads). I can only wear "relaxed fit" jeans : due to my quad size, so since my BMI tells me I'm just on the heavy : side of borderline at 238-240, I'd really like to find out what my % : body fat is, and a relatively inexpensive way to measure/monitor : that periodically. One of my friends has a Tanita scale that also measures bodyfat using an electric pulse (that you can't feel), that is supposed to be accurate to within .5%. Oftentimes commerical gyms have them, or if you can't find one to use but want one anyway, they cost anywhere from $45 to $600, depending on how many "neat gadgets" you want yours to have. Needless to say, you shouldn't use this if you have a pacemaker or other similar devices inside you, but for most other people it should be just fine. I'm sure there are other places to find them, but a quick search on Google gave me http://www.balances.com/tanita/bodyfat/ as a decent place to compare a few of them; http://www.epinions.com/ also has several reviews submitted by "real people" that you can read. I, too, generally have to wear relaxed-fit jeans. I'd guess my ancestors were battleaxe-wielding dwarves (or something similar), based solely on my build. (= Don't forget to breathe, Jeff ------------------------------ From: "Mac" Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:07:25 -0600 Subject: the_dojang: new poomse Master Hodder, <> TKD: Pyung-ahn, Chang-han, Palgwe, Taegeuk, and some Songham. TSD: Pyung-ahn... Maybe you might be interested in TSD, we haven't changed. Mac (peaseful and confident in Houston) ;-) Tang Soo! ------------------------------ From: "Rudy Timmerman" Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:18:09 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: President Craig writes: >>From what I've heard of the current ITF/WTF relationship, Master Timmerman > has a better chance of being elected President of the United States then > those two groups getting together...... What's up Craig, you don't think I would make a good pres?:) Rudy ------------------------------ From: Neal Konecky Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 20:29:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #686 Ray wrote: <<< Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 00:08:32 -0500 Subject: the_dojang: Re: The_Dojang-Digest V8 #687 Ray wrote: <<<>>> Craig wrote: <<<>>> I'm sorry all, but I have to agree with Craig. I came from a TSD dojang. I'm now in a TKD dojang. I see a big difference in the forms. Don't get me wrong, I love my new dojang. The way they train is very old fashioned, traditional training. That's what attracted me to this dojang. But the first 5 forms (taebeak series.... sp?), are geared toward sparring, not self defence. They do jump to the old TSD forms after them (bassai, ect). I'm not the "sport" type of person. I'm not saying the ones who are are wrong, but I joined MA for self defence not sport. Dizzy _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 22:17:26 PST Subject: the_dojang: . ------------------------------ End of The_Dojang-Digest V8 #688 ******************************** It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org To unsubscribe from the_dojang-digest send the command: unsubscribe the_dojang-digest -or- unsubscribe the_dojang-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11!