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List-Unsubscribe: Message-Id: <20020118150914.EC48EBF3@cuprel1.hp.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:09:14 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The_Dojang, serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. learning/teaching weapons skills (Anthony or Clare Boyd) 2. GM Benko (Anthony or Clare Boyd) 3. development of weapon/unarmed skills (Anthony or Clare Boyd) 4. Teachers (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Weapons (michael tomlinson) 6. old days (michael tomlinson) 7. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #23 - 7 msgs (Donnla Nic Gearailt) 8. RE:Tournaments in Hapkido? Maybe.... (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:20:20 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] learning/teaching weapons skills Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd like to add some comments about this weapons certification issue that arose from the announcement of a weapons seminar. As some of you know, my primary art is a sword art, Haidong Gumdo. Every day, almost all of my practice is devoted to mastering the mechanics of one weapon. Every few months I get a revelation about some facet of swordplay that was completely obscured from my perception in the months and years prior. Epiphanies, I call them. In the past few months, I have been fortunate enough to have a three friends join the dojang where I train in Seoul and I have had the pleasure of seeing them begin their journey in swordwork. It's been an eye-opening experience for me to see their struggles with even the most basic cut. There are so many factors involved in a single stroke with a sword and they have the daunting task of discovering and addressing each of these factors before they can even begin to harmonize each disparate element into one co-ordinated concept - the strike. Watching them learn is bringing back lots of memories of my own struggles. It is also helping me to see my current deficiencies. For the first time, I am also starting to be able to see my strengths. Perhaps this is the greatest surprise of all. I'm not used to having any. Sometimes, I have the privilege of demonstrating or teaching them a new technique. Giving voice and form to a concept is truly a learning process for the teacher, not just the student, and it sheds new light on so many things which may have been missed when the teacher was a new student. When I saw the list of weapons to be dealt with in the weapons seminar and also saw that certification was available it seemed impossible to me that so many different weapons would be taught and tested for by one individual at one seminar. I assumed that this was part of an ongoing process and that as people attended the seminars they tested for certification when they actually knew something about the weapon. Is it really possible that a group can offer a multi-weapon program and also provide certification on that program after a single seminar? What does the cert say? "I certify that J.Q. Mudo attended my seminar and spent a few minutes holding various replica weapons." Does it merely certify that the person attended and not speak about what they may or may not have learned? It would be impossible to teach someone any real understanding of a weapon in a weekend. How could you even grasp more than an understanding of the basic directions for a single technique? Like the Ray, the dedicated Grand-Poobah of the Internet, I too am in full support of seminars and look forward to attending as many as I can when I return to Canada. There's so much I'd like to experiment with to see if it fits well with the knowledge I have learned in my studies in Korea! The notion that a person could be certified from experiences like these is akin to saying I can be a chef after boiling water once. It can literally take years to truly understand how difficult it is to make a single sword stroke. It looks very basic and simple but it really isn't. So many weapons and concepts are exactly like that, too. Punching, kicking, throwing, standing in a static stance... there is so much more than what meets the eye or the unready mind. This being the case I could never accept a "certification" from this type of learning environment. Wouldn't a better term for it be "receipt"? ...Hmmm... where'd this soapbox come from...? Getting down now. Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:25:03 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Benko Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net No disrespect intended so please take this question as it is intended... Is this gentleman legit? Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" To: Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 15:24:05 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] development of weapon/unarmed skills Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Why do people state that weapons skills grew out of unarmed skills? Can anyone tell me? >From my understanding of things it is quite the reverse. Our lack of natural armament provides major motivation to amplify our combat capabilities with tools and without outside (ie governmental) restrictions on weapons use, armed combat (for survival) tends to be the choice of all but a few. Is this too simplistic a view? Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 02:18:25 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Teachers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael writes: > Doju Nim Ji would "demonstrate" the "proper" way to do the technique Hello Michael: Having seen Dojunim in action, I can imagine your elation he used Master Neighbors to work with:) My old Instructor often used me as a crash dummy, and I can still vividly recall the pain. A great way to learn! Sounds like you folks have a great program for training teachers. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:27:30 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Weapons Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Joel writes: <> I studied with Stephen Hayes in 1985 and he NEVER offered weapons certification, you came to class and you practiced weapons EVERYDAY, in all kinds of scenarios and all kinds of environments, with many different weapons, we would work out at the neighborhood park next to the Dojo,, which was in the basement of an old shopping center on the South Side of Dayton, (Ray may know this area), it was called Hills and Dales shopping center. Some of the advanced students in our classes were unbelievable with weapons, they could cut, climb, and throw so many different weapons that it was mind boggling. A weapon IS the exstension of your body but again, you can't learn this and be certified to teach it in one weekend!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:50:51 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] old days Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree that you must "feel" techniques in Hapkido to understand them and this is the only real way to learn them, but "feeling" a Hapkido technique applied on you from Doju Nim Ji when he is a little worked up borders on a religious experience!!!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:14:36 +0000 From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #23 - 7 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Message: 7 >From: Ray Terry >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang), > eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 19:10:39 -0800 (PST) >Subject: [The_Dojang] Fear Based Continuum >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >>Here are the 4 levels of the Fear Based Continuum. >> >> a.. Fear of Embarrassment >> >> b.. Fear of Escape >> >> c.. Fear of Injury >> >> d.. Fear of Great Bodily Harm or Death >> >> >>Fear of Embarrassment >> >>This is an important part of the Fear Based Continuum. This is a situation >>where the officer has no authority over a person or situation. An example >>of this may be where an officer has initiated a citizen or voluntary >>contact with a subject. The subject may be with a group of friends or there >>may people standing around watching. >> >>When the officer makes contact and asks the person if he/she can speak with >>them, the person tells the officer to "screw off" or starts mouthing off at >>the officer. Other people are around and this usually causes the officer >>some level of embarrassment. But the officer has to remember, that with a >>citizen/voluntary contact, none of the 3 elements exist that activate our >>authority, so there is nothing the officer can do in this situation except >>swallow their pride. I think here in Europe even if the officer doesn't have probable cause it is still an offence to swear at or verbally abuse an officer in uniform. (in France, any public servant, including traffic warden, driving licence tester etc). Cue the number of people hauled up in front of local courts every month because they walked up to an officer randomly after the bars shut and starting telling him/her to "f**k off" etc. Incidentally these court cases make entertaining reading in the local newspapers :). Donnla ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Language Technology Group, Division of Informatics Research Assistant 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, Scotland. tel: +44-131-6504656 http://www.iccs.informatics.ac.uk/~donnlan/ "An eyelash! How could you be so careless!" - Jude Law, Gattaca --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:31:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Tournaments in Hapkido? Maybe.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray et al: ".... How does one have a Hapkido tournament without broken bones? I've discussed > this here in Tucson and the concensus at the school is that it isn't > feasible. I'd like to know more....." I had toyed with the idea of such a tournament for quite a while. It would be not unlike the Tomiki Aikido model though allowing for a range of responses such as are found in Hapkido by segregating strike/kick defenses from grappling/joint-lock/throw defenses ala' the old Kyokushinkai Full Contact competitions of a few years ago. Such a venue would have one individual who can accrue points by succesfully contacting marked/identified points on a hogu with a faux knife. The defender would accrue points by successfully defending against the attack with the designated category of defenses. Then the roles would be reversed. Depending on the sophistication of the competition, one could alternate roles over a range of defense categories and with a number of rounds within each competition. Though I had originally considered the old 4-corner-judges-and-a-ref system, with the advent of micro-systems it would be possible to design a faux knife, appropriately fitted with a micro-chip that could signal contact of appropriate merit with the designated site on the hogu for the defender. The defenders' response, would, of course, be more apprarent but I suspect with the recent developments in feedback equiptment for TKD competition, the equivalent could be used to assess the defenders responses as well. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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