To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------ The_Dojang Digest mailing list ------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 800 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #32 - 4 msgs (Robert Martin) 2. Susuk? (Ray Terry) 3. Difference (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Confucius & Modern Times (Your Perspectives?) (John Groff) 5. Re: Thoughts (Piotr Bernat) 6. How to determine seniority (Andrew Pratt) 7. Dr. Kimm and the 16th International (J. R. West) 8. DJN Ji seminar in CO (Todd and Debi Deininger) 9. Doju Nim Ji (feel the pain) (Todd and Debi Deininger) 10. Re: DJN Ji seminar in CO (Ray Terry) 11. Mt. Geumgang Tours (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 06:17:51 -0800 (PST) From: Robert Martin To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #32 - 4 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hehe BTW, under ITF rules that would be Mr. Stanley. ITF masters are 7th Dan. Robert Martin > > Now would I do that? :) > > Boy, Master Stanley didn't mince any words in his > public reply, did he? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 8:53:14 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Susuk? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Question... A TKD grandmaster awarded me a belt that says, among other things, "Susuk Sabumnim" on it. What does Susuk mean? I figured it probably meant something like chubby old white boy.?.?. Yes? No? :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:27:50 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Difference Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kuk Sool "Won" is the "Association", people within the association study Kuk Sool. Some may use the Kuk Sool part of the name to indicate that they are not with the association. Over the years, a number of folks left the association to go on their own. Many of them continue to train and teach Kuk Sool. Due to legal considerations, Kuk Sool Won is a registered trademark in many locations, they may have had to change the name of their school. Similar things have happened in Hwa Rang Do and other associations. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "John Groff" To: Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:26:36 -0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Confucius & Modern Times (Your Perspectives?) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net S.H. Wee wrote that; [snip]"Simple, according to Confucious teaching," Confucius also taught that along with young submitting to old, peon always submits to ruler and female should always submit to male. Yet I don't know of too many teachers who insist that blue collar students line up below white collar managers, or women and girls line up behind or separate from men and boys. It seems really convenient to use just a smidgeon of Confucius to justify some relationships and minimize others. Where in the writings of Confucius does it describe this kind of relationship regarding teachers and heirarchy? Is my kindergarten teacher above my physics professor? C.J. Hardman --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:04:33 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Thoughts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Any thoughts from the ITFers (Robert?) on who will stay with Major > General Choi and who will go with Master Choi? I`m not an ITFer, but I`m pretty sure Poland will stay with Gen. Choi. Our ITF association is run by rather traditionally minded people when it comes to ITF politics. BTW, they have another split with one of the strongest schools switching over to the WTF including the Female National Team coach plus several of the National Team members. Regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:16:29 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] How to determine seniority Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Shin Hoe, You wrote in a recent Dojang: > Simple, according to Confucious teaching, the person that joined the school earlier than you will always be your senior, regardless of your rank. Same goes for teacher. For example, if you studied under Doju Ji Han-jae first, then further your study under under GM Choi Yong-sool. Doju Ji will alway be regarded as your teacher until he decide to dis-own you. The same logic applies for traditional Japanese and Chinese arts. < Do disrespect but I'm not sure that this is completely correct, at least as far as Korea is concerned. I went to university late and I once asked my Korean colleagues this question. Who was senior, me the older person, or the student who was ahead of me in college (sonbae) but younger than me? My Korean friend, after some thought, told me that I was the senior because physical age is always the determining factor. This question is currently socially important and interesting because the Korean business world is trying to reconcile Euro-American ideas of performance promotion with the traditional time-served system. The problem of younger people 'ordering' seniors around is very real, and that's not to mention the trouble and embarrassment that is posed by the possibility of a younger woman directing an older man. Heaven forbid, what is the world coming to (Confucius spins in his grave)! Andrew --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "J. R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:55:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dr. Kimm and the 16th International Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dr. Kimm has advised me that he will be in attendence at the 16th International HapKiDo Seminar in Jackson, MS on Saturday, the 2nd of March, so if anyone wishes to get a personalized autographed book by Dr. Kimm, spend some time talking, or getting your picture taken with him, this would be an excellent time to get it done.....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 16:30:23 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] DJN Ji seminar in CO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net More details on the DJN Ji seminar: DJN Ji and Master Ken Mackenzie will be conducting an intense two-day seminar, approx. 6-8 hours per day, hosted by the CSU TKD/HKD Club April 20 & 21 Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, CO Cost: $150 for both days before 3/1/02 $200 after 3/1/02 $250 at the door $50 non-refundable deposit will be accepted to lock rates for registration info, email colostateHKD@aol.com For general info, you can email me. Todd --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Todd and Debi Deininger" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:19 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Doju Nim Ji (feel the pain) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mike and Michael, I am with you on the pain from DJN. This past summer I visited DJN in his new Dojang. Since he only had white belts in class, he enjoyed putting on a little show using me as the bad-guy. For those of you that want to feel the pain, come join us in Colorado in April. Todd --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] DJN Ji seminar in CO To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:22:59 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Colorado State University, Ft. Collins, CO Is this the same club that was (is?) run by my friend Dave Steffen? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:31:46 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Mt. Geumgang Tours Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net NK Proposes Connecting Mt. Geumgang Tours to Arirang Festival January 21, 2002 North Korea has proposed to the South's Hyundai Group that South Korean tourists visiting its Mt. Geumgang resort also come to Pyeongyang for the Arirang Festival scheduled for April 29-June 29. Kim Yoon-kyu, CEO of Hyundai Asan, who visited the mountain resort last week, said on Monday (Jan. 21) that the North Korean organizers of the Arirang Festival offered to link Mt. Geumgang tourism with visits to its capital. Kim quoted the North Korean organizers as saying that the North will make an official proposal to South Korea soon. The Arirang Festival is a massive cultural event to celebrate, among other things, the 90th birthday of the late North Korea president Kim Il-sung. Pyeongyang has been actively promoting the event, which coincides with the South's World Cup soccer finals in June. It is the first time that North Korea has offered to open up parts other than the isolated Mt. Geumgang area to South Korean tourists. Hyundai has been operating the tour project since 1998, which, due to poor response, has been on the brink of collapse. The Mt. Geumgang-Arirang tourism package would also mean a land route linking Mt. Geumgang and Pyeongyang via Wonsan on the eastern coast would have to be opened up temporarily. "No agreement on the land route issue has been reached between Hyundai and North Korea yet," a senior Unification Ministry official said. There have also been media reports that North Korea is now hurrying the previously delayed construction of the severed Seoul-Sinuiju railway and of allowing a direct air route between Seoul and Pyeongyang, as part of its plans to lure more tourists. During last week's meeting, Hyundai notified North Korea's Asia Pacific Peace Committee of the South's recent decision to provide more financial support for the beleaguered tourism project, and asked Pyeongyang to implement agreements on designating the Mt. Geumgang area as a special tourism zone and to open up a land route leading to the resort. "Out of consideration that the Mt. Geumgang project contributes greatly to peace and thus cannot be stopped, the government has nearly made a decision to provide additional financial support," Kim Hong-jae, Unification Ministry spokesman, said. Unpaid entrance fees by Hyundai to North Korea amounts to $1 million (1.3 billion won), and the tourism project is racking up an additional deficit of 2 to 3 billion won per month. Sources said the government is likely to extend a 20 billion won package for Hyundai, out of the South-North Cooperation Fund. The Korea National Tourism Organization received a 90 billion won loan from the fund last year, half of which has been paid so far. Seoul's decision to bail out the cash-strapped tourism project is likely to invite criticism from the opposition political parties, as it may be seen as breaking the government's "division of politics and economics" principle. Unification Minister Hong Soon-young said as recently as December that the government will "adhere to market principles" in dealing with the Mt. Geumgang tourism project. With the South Korean government having decided on the controversial course of giving more money to Pyeongyang, observers point out that it is now Pyeongyang's turn to show its commitment to agreements on the normalization of the tourism project, as well as other inter-Korean dialogue. Hyundai's Kim Yoon-kyu said that North Korea seemed near designating the Mt. Geumgang area as a special tourism zone, possibly within the first half of this year. "I think North Korea will also react positively to government-level talks with the South," he said. Government-level talks between the two Koreas, such as the South-North economic cooperation meeting, have all been put on hold since last November, when the sixth inter-Korean ministerial talks broke off without any tangible outcome. Exchange programs such as family reunions have also been delayed indefinitely. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest