To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------ The_Dojang Digest mailing list ------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 850 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: determining seniority (Klaas Barends) 2. Grand Master ? (Brian Myers) 3. where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? (GABY NOUFAILY) 4. Re: where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? (Ray Terry) 5. Re: where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? (Ray Terry) 6. Appointment Question (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 7. tkdnet, yet again (Ray Terry) 8. Re: ninjitsu (Matthew Fisher) 9. Re: Appointment Question (Ray Terry) 10. Something we can do together (Anthony or Clare Boyd) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: 23 Jan 2002 09:41:20 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: determining seniority Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > At the 3 schools that I have been involved with, seniority is rank, then age. > So if 2 BB are in the room, and both are 1st degrees, but one is 35 > and the other 19, the 35y/o has higher seniority, only if they are the > same age, does time at rank count. The Korean school I went to, first your grade then how long they were a student of my master. So if we were both 1st dan but you joined in 1993 and I in 1994 you would sit in front of me, even if you were younger then I am. My guess is, there isn't really a rule for what to do, the master in all his wisdom makes up his mind, and decides what's right for us. And since we are only unknowing students, we should just follow him/her. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Brian Myers To: "'The_Dojang (E-mail)" Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:45:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grand Master ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To the DD: Before I ask my questions, let me state in advance - I MEAN NO DISRESPECT TO GM SELL OR ANYONE ELSE. As most of you know I am a refugee from the ATA, and right now would be considered Ronin by Japanese standards. I still actively participate (at the request of many) in the ATA bulletin board, where I tend to ask questions that make people "uncomfortable". I try to remember to be respectful in my questions, but always ask questions that I hope will lead all martial artists to be better people and build better organizations. As I read the article on Mr. Sell receiving the title Grand Master, it raised some questions - some of which I have asked the ATA folks a few times. "...broke down Asian barriers as he earned the rank of ninth-degree black belt in Seoul, Korea, in September at the World Taekwondo Federation Headquarters." "In earning the belt, Sell became the highest-ranked non-Asian to achieve such a feat in the martial art of Taekwondo." "I've always known his capabilities," said Grandmaster Jim Covensky, who trained under Sell for 28 years. Question #1: Are there no other 9th Degree Non-Asians in the WTF? (The ATA proclaims to not hold this predjudice, but in operational reality it is "strickly" enforced.) Question #2: Is the title Grand Master "disconnected" from the rank of 9th Degree in the WTF? (This is the case with a number titles with in the ATA - Master, Senior Master, Etc. These all have requirements above and beyond the rank around one's waist.) "Sell tested in front of Senior Grandmaster Soon-Bae Kim, the adviser of the Korean Taekwondo Association; Senior Grandmaster Kyo-Yoon Lee, the senior member of the Taekwondo exam board and Senior Grandmaster Choon-Sung Hwang, adviser of Korean Taekwondo and chief adviser of the WTF Black Belt Promotion committee." Question #3: Senior Grand Master? 10th Degree? I am unsure of what the title really means. In the ATA we are taught that 9th Degree (Grand Master) is the pinnacle, Our first Grand Master H.U. Lee was awarded a posthumous (sp.) title of Eternal Grand Master by many in the ATA community, but that in effect was like being given an honorary degree from a university, just acknowledgment of the great things he had accomplished. "He rose all the way to ninth degree, but was not officially acknowledged by the Korean community until this past year. Because there was no protocol for such an event, the actual testing took several years while officials worked it out." Statement : This I will never understand. How can a man like GM Sell prove his tallents and capabilities in such a manner as to "receive" the rank of 9th Degree and not be officially acknowledged? To me this is as unforgivable as one practitioner wanting to "strip" another practitioner (not a student) of their rank for some "personal" disagreement. "For Sell, it had been more than 20 years since he tested -- when he earned his sixth degree belt." Question #4 : How does one promote if one does not test? Are there belt ranks within the WTF that have nothing to do with physical ability and physical performance? Within the ATA there are ways to "promote" without testing. However these are not belt ranks, but honorifics. To earn Master does not require new physical skills above those of the 5th Degree Belt rank, but a 5th Degree must meet other criteria (knowledge, # of students, etc.) to be "promoted" to Master. Remember, I do not ask these questions out of disrespect. I wish to take nothing away from GM Sell, his accomplishments should serve as an inspiration to us all. What I do wish is to "cast an eye of doubt" on the systems at work. I wonder if many of the seemingly petty disputes, and even the "large divisions" between the various factions of TKD don't stem from these types of questions. Respect, Honor, Discipline, Perseverance : These are the tenants we all claim to live by as Martial Artisits - no matter what your chosen art form. Within this article I can find examples of great perseverance and incredible discipline (GM Sell achieving his dream), and I find breeches in the fundamentals of Honor and Respect. Again, as I have done in the distant past, I ask - What could the Martial Arts community acoomplish in this world of ours, if only we could learn to live "together"? Ok - off my soapbox... Yours in the Martial Spirit, Brian Myers --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 05:54:57 -0800 (PST) From: GABY NOUFAILY To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net hi guys I would like to know if anyone of you know where does DJN jae han ji teach in the states? and I will appreciate your cooperation. thanks Gaby Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail. --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:35:05 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > hi guys I would like to know if anyone of you know where does DJN jae han ji > teach in the states? Elkins Park (next to Philadelphia), Penn. 1400 Willow Ave Elkins Park, PA 19027 Phone = 215-782-3008 Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] where does does DJN jae han ji teach in the state? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:36:22 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > hi guys I would like to know if anyone of you know where does DJN jae han ji > teach in the states? and I will appreciate your cooperation. Oh, and that should be either Han-jae Ji or JI, Han-jae. Ji is the family name. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:36:41 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Appointment Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Say if you were given an appointment within a given federation by the founder, does that always mean you will have that position? Given the fact the founder is no longer alive and there's been massive changes with the federation and new appointments were issued. ===== International HKD Federation-Sun Mu Kwan USA www.ushankido.org Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail! http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/ --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:31:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] tkdnet, yet again Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just fyi... This was recently forwarded to me. Yes, we've seen these before, but these msgs continue to mystify and amaze all. As all can clearly see, the problem with our old friend Glenn continues. A bit of ancient history... The real issue here is that he was once kicked off this very list for the disrespect he continued to show to you, the list members. And as others can attest, he has also been kicked off other lists for the very same reason. He just won't learn. Yet he attempts to claim that we are disrespectful here. Ohh, I guess that is correct. We disrespect those that continually disrespect others. So very sad... Forwarded message: >From: "tkd net mailing list admin" > > snip... > >Among our US members are many who are active within the >USTU as Elite Athletes, Coaches, International Referees, and >administrators, including many who serve as USTU State >Association Presidents/officers and other USTU national positions, >including USTU Committee Chairpersons. If you are interested in >the latest news and information regarding the USTU and WTF, >then this list is for you, since you will not find a more up to date >source anywhere on the internet. > > snip... > >We do have some rules of conduct which we require all members to >accept. First, we request that all members participate in a respectful >and professional manner. Disrespectful conduct is unacceptable. > >Second, we ask that you keep in mind that we are currently boycotting >the support of the mailing list called Dojang Digest. There numerous >reasons, the biggest one being the protection of our members. The >Dojang Digest has become known as a haven for fakes, frauds and >people of the lowest character within the Korean Martial Arts on the >internet. Many reputable practitioners have found their name smeared >and their reputation soiled by this type of DD member, with the latest >being threats to have their legitimate rank revoked by unscrupulous >persons. Since these negative situations and consequences were a >direct result of being associated with DD, the reputable and >legitimate practitioners are now moving away from said forum. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Matthew Fisher" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:35:51 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ninjitsu Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net i have recently found a ninjitsu school in my area i was wondering if it complements tkd well, at this school i know that at least the cane weapon is taught along with empty hand techniques any replies would be great, also i wouyld be interested to know if they have a belt system or something different. thanks, Mash _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Appointment Question To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:14:56 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Say if you were given an appointment within a given > federation by the founder, does that always mean you > will have that position? Given the fact the founder is > no longer alive and there's been massive changes with > the federation and new appointments were issued. Appointment as in rank or an office of some sort? It would seem to me that an office appt would very likely change, but not rank. Just my $0.02... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Anthony or Clare Boyd" To: Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:35:45 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Something we can do together Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Two nights ago I caught the end of a news report describing a way to donate computer processing time to cancer research. It stuck with me and last night I found the link. www.intel.com/cure Of course the media was focused entirely on the anthrax cure program but there are three programs to chose from: The first, leukemia, the second, alzheimer's and the newest one, anthrax. The program involves a short download of a screensaver (no Mac versions at this time) which works on computations while your computer is idle. When you are connected to the internet it asks permission to report it's completed results to the Research centre. Making PC Philanthropy a Part of PC Ownership Millions of people worldwide are affected by cancer, diabetes and other diseases. You don't have to be a scientist to help find a cure. The Intel® Philanthropic Peer-to-Peer Program combats life-threatening illnesses by linking millions of PCs like yours into one of the most powerful computing resources in the world. This "virtual supercomputer" uses peer-to-peer technology to make unprecedented amounts of processing power available to medical researchers, thus accelerating the development of treatments and drugs with the potential to cure diseases. You can take part in this ground-breaking Internet-based project by lending your PC's unused resources to the greater good. There's no cost to download and run the program, and no noticeable impact on your computer's performance, because the medical research programs take advantage only of processing power you're not using. The United Devices* Cancer Research Program The United Devices* cancer research program was developed to aid the search for new drugs to treat leukemia and other cancers. United Devices Inc.* developed this program in conjunction with the National Foundation for Cancer Research (NFCR)* and the University of Oxford*. As a first step to finding new drugs and a potential cure for leukemia-the No. 1 cause of childhood death by disease-and other cancers, researchers must evaluate the cancer-fighting potential of hundreds of millions of molecules. NFCR scientists estimate that this task will require many millions of hours of number-crunching, which was previously unimaginable. Linking computers like yours to this project will help accelerate biological computation and produce faster results. Depending on the results of this program, the time required to develop a new treatment and drugs could be cut from twelve years to as little as five years. This particular drug optimization program is evaluating 16 proteins. One of these 16 proteins has been identified as critical to the growth of leukemia; shutting it down might mean finding a cure for leukemia. The other 15 proteins in the simulation are very important to the growth of leukemia, and they have implications for the growth of other cancers as well. Stopping one of these proteins will likely reduce the growth of leukemia and have benefits for other cancers, too. The Stanford Alzheimer and Amyloidogenic Disease Research Program The Stanford Alzheimer and Amyloidogenic Disease Research Program performs Alzheimer's research by studying "protein misfolding," an anomaly that scientists believe may cause this degenerative brain disease. To date, there is no cure for this Alzheimer's, which causes impaired mental and emotional functions in older adults. But recent studies indicate that Alzheimer's patients have a build-up of plaques inside the blood vessels of the brain. These plaques are thought to be caused by proteins that don't "fold" correctly. In other words, these proteins fail to assume the proper shape to carry out their function. If one protein misfolds, it can in turn cause other proteins to misfold. By simulating the conditions that cause proteins to misfold, researchers seek to better understand Alzheimer's disease and eventually develop treatments for it. Research into protein misfolding is also expected to benefit sufferers of other illnesses. In fact, the Stanford Alzheimer and Amyloidogenic Disease Research Program should foster a better understanding of amyloidogenic diseases in general - not only because this research will shed light on all diseases believed to result from misfolding, but also because the research includes proteins that are thought to be involved in other debilitating illnesses. These include Type II Diabetes (formerly called adult-onset diabetes or non-insulin-dependent diabetes) and bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE, known as "Mad Cow" disease). Simulating protein folding and misfolding will be a great advantage to researchers conducting strictly lab intensive work. But a solution has so far eluded scientists, largely because the complex simulations required are computationally intensive. Adding computers like yours to this effort will help speed up the process. www.intel.com/cure ____________________________________________________________________________ _ Sorry for the long post but it struck me as something useful that 1000+ computer users around the world could participate in together for a good cause - helping to serve and protect those around us. Anthony Boyd www.stormpages.com/haidonggumdo --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest