To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------ The_Dojang Digest mailing list ------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. 850 members strong! Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #33 - 11 msgs (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 2. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #34 - 10 msgs (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 3. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #35 - 3 msgs (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 4. Confucius & Modern Times (Your Perspectives?) (WEE Shin Hoe) 5. Hankido manual (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 6. Gathering of frauds (Rudy Timmerman) 7. inguinal hernia - groin problems in TKD (CrashD) 8. Re: class protocol (Klaas Barends) 9. RE: Rank stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 10. RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #38 - 6 msgs (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:22:23 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #33 - 11 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 1/21/02 11:58:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << Is my kindergarten teacher above my physics professor? >> YES!!! Where would you be w/out your Kindergarten teacher? :0) -Playfully re-entering the contributing crowd of the DD! Cheree --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:35:15 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #34 - 10 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Dizzy! I am sad to see that you did not find a new TSD school in your new area, but happy that you continued your path on the martial arts trail! You willingness to start over shows incredible determination and humility. Good Luck! Anyway, I believe we had this conversation sometime ago, but I was always taught (by my greatest instructor - my Mom) to grant respect where respect is due. I have absolutely no problem with anyone lining-up before me, however, one must often "grin through her teeth," so to speak, when the person lining up before you shows no respect for others (thus showing a great lack of self-respect.) As people age, then often gain an incredible grasp of technique, however they are physically incapable of demonstrating the same level of prowess as they once might have. Those type of people, as long as they still train, embody the true spirit of martial arts. -Cheree --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:38:43 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #35 - 3 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Attention TSD 'lurkers:' Master C.S. Kim's new website, www.cskimkarate.com, is now up and running. We are still in the process of updating the video intro, sound and re-digitizing some photo's, but the majority of the site is still is great operational shape! As always, you can always take a (virtual) visit to my Do Jang; www.cskimkaratebloomfield.com -Cheree --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "WEE Shin Hoe" To: Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:05:38 +0800 Organization: Tradimas Sdn Bhd Subject: [The_Dojang] Confucius & Modern Times (Your Perspectives?) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Message: 4 > From: "John Groff" > To: > Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 23:26:36 -0800 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Confucius & Modern Times (Your Perspectives?) > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Confucius also taught that along with young submitting to old, peon always > submits to ruler and female should always submit to male. Yet I don't know > of too many teachers who insist that blue collar students line up below > white collar managers, or women and girls line up behind or separate from > men and boys. No, this is not in Confucious teaching, just a convenient way for the ruling class to abuse the Confucious teaching to their own benefits, just as what Osama Bin Laden has been doing. If you read through Confucious writings, nothing was said about these stuff. > It seems really convenient to use just a smidgeon of Confucius to justify > some relationships and minimize others. Where in the writings of Confucius > does it describe this kind of relationship regarding teachers and > heirarchy? Is my kindergarten teacher above my physics professor? > > C.J. Hardman No, in Confucious teaching, the relationship between a teacher and a student is of father and son relationship. Your physics professor will be more knowledgeble than your kindergarten teacher, but your kindergarten teacher will always be one of your teacher regardless of whether you are now a professor and won a Nobel. Traditionally, even if you advance high enough that your skills exceeded that of your teacher and further your study under the teacher of your teacher, your teacher will always remain as your teacher and deserved the respect due to him. Regards, S. H. Wee shinhoe@pc.jaring.my --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:58:49 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hankido manual Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For those that are interested, I compiled a Hankido manual in English covering the basics of Hankido including the various different postures. Its meant to supplement the Hankido practionier's training. If interested, contact me directly via email. Lastly, I want to thank one of the DD's newest members, Klaas Barends of the Dutch Hapkido Federation (IHF) for helping me with this project. It would not be possible without his help and expertise. ===== International HKD Federation-Sun Mu Kwan USA www.ushankido.org Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions! http://auctions.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:23:51 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gathering of frauds Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > BTW, looking forward to seeing and meeting many of you "fakes, frauds and > people of the lowest character within the Korean Martial Arts" in Jackson Hello Ray. Perhaps JR should rename his workshop to the "gathering of frauds and lowlifes". I knew I had something in common with you folks. I'll be glad to see some of my fellow degenerates in Jackson soon:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:20:50 +0100 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: CrashD Subject: [The_Dojang] inguinal hernia - groin problems in TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone on the DD! I do train Taekwondo (WTF) and I reached my blue belt recently. According to my doctor I "broke" my groin (med. inguinal hernia). I do not feel pain during my training, only if i press the groin with fingers I feel that there is something. Now my question: Has anyone on the list ever had such groin problems? The only thing to recover from that is an operation. There are 3 operation methods I found out on the Internet. In one there is a plastic net being sewed in the groin area and there is a recovery time in which you should not lift anything or train of about 6 - 10 weeks. I am 23 years old now and able to do the front split. (I am working on my side split, there are only a few cm...) Any experiences from anyone??? Are the splits to blame my problems? Is there any streching (splits...) without problems after an operation? Thanks for your reply in advance. Cheers, Daniel (WTF -Taekwondo blue belt from Austria / Europe) --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: 25 Jan 2002 11:14:56 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: class protocol Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hello Klaas: A good old Dutch name I presume:) It is. Actually it comes from St. Nicolas aka Santa Claus :-) > While I might now have a higher rank, I might have never achieved it without > their help and motivation. I would be more than happy to show my respect > and gratefulness by sitting behind them. In my view, rank, age, and > seniority in time of training can only be addressed through respect. > Sometimes correct protocol does not allow for this. Any thoughts? Protocol may never stand in the way of a good teacher-student and/or student-fellow student relationship. I also think that protocol is there to establish this relation of mutual respect. After some time when you get to know each other, one can take it somewhat more easy on the protocol. But when things get out of hand you always have the protocol to get back to. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:22:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Rank stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Rudy: "....While I might now have a higher rank, I might have never achieved it without their help and motivation. I would be more than happy to show my respect and gratefulness by sitting behind them. In my view, rank, age, and seniority in time of training can only be addressed through respect. Sometimes correct protocol does not allow for this. Any thoughts?...." Of course, this is only my opinion, however I have come to believe that we Americans are missing a golden opportunity to make a significant albeit small contribution to the Korean MT regarding this issue. By this I mean that perhaps a person such as myself who espouses a traditionalist approach to KMT can find a way to honor the culture that has gifted these traditions to me without being hide-bound by some of the societal fine points such as we are discussing here. As I write this I am thinking of my Basic Training in the US Military and how we were encouraged to remember that we "salute the rank and not the man." In the situation found in MA schools I think we would do well to adopt an approach that turns that Basic Training approach around. In such a manner students would be respecting the people first and not the rank. This is probably also a good time to remember that the whole ranking system is an import to the Korean people and has never had a place in KMT prior to 1910. We Americans are very status-conscious and spend a good deal of time jockeying about well-regarded places in the pecking order. I am sure some folks would say that the Koreans are much the same. However, from what small experience I have had with Korean individuals, status is very much a function of education, age, and experience and less a matter of rank or title. I would go so far as to say that the individuals whom I know who are pre-occupied with titles and status seem so involved as a result of commercial concerns rather than the good of the arts. Your sensitivity regarding rank and status seems to be driven from the heart, which, IMHO is as it should be. In my own classes, student and myself do not line up rank and file. Rather we form a circle and proceed from there. Perhaps this is a start. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:49:21 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #38 - 6 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jere: "....time I hear the word GM it reminds me of the first time I saw or heard the word. It was in BB magazine back in, I am guessing, the early 80's. Some out of shape, overweight man who was barely out of his teenage years but took the title of GM and was a 14th dan of some art he made up. You are either a Master/Mr./Mrs./Dr....." Maybe I am just feeling crabby this morning, but I get a little tired of the media setting the standards for me regarding MA/MT and how I might conduct myself. Like you, I don't remember the title "grandmaster" being used much before the late 70-s though I understand it was actually used for the first time during the 60-s in BLACK BELT magazine. When I hear an individual make statements like "men want women who......." or "Americans have a love affair with the automobile" or "the US is addicted to fast food" I have to stop and ask myself who these individuals are talking about. I can't say that any of these statements plus many more are anything I have asked for. However, I daily run into media presentations in the press and on radio and television that tell me that I am somehow deficient unless I hold these particular positions. In like manner, most of the people whom I respect in the KMT don't spend a lot of time encouraging the folks around them to use particular titles or manner of address. However, I notice that the MA media seem to make a point of identifying individuals by their rank or title as though there is a direct correlation between that title and the individuals' technical skill. Maybe its time to remind BLACK BELT, TKD TIMES and a host of other publications that the whole ranking and title game we play here in the States is a contrived house of cards and that the preponderance of "grandmasters" are such in title only and couldn't execute the corpus of their curriculum if they had to! Taken a step farther, I find it amazing the large numbers of folks who have "made up" some improved system of TKD/TSD/HKD without ever having learned the actual art itself. Best Wishes, Bruce (AKA " Most Beneficent Representative of the Deity and Successor to the Wizard of OZ") --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest