Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:02:30 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #80 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<--------------- The_Dojang mailing list --------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. The Korean royal family (Andrew Pratt) 2. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #78 - 11 msgs (Klaas Barends) 3. Original Hapkido (todd miller) 4. Re: Questions, we got questions.... (Bruce Sims) 5. GM Yong Ki Song (Gary Pointer) 6. Hal Whalen - Call Your Buddy (Victor Cushing) 7. Re: GM Yong Ki Song (Ray Terry) 8. Re: Inquiring minds need to know (Bruce Sims) 9. Re: Original Hapkido (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 17:37:09 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] The Korean royal family Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Craig, The last emperor (Sunjong) died in 1926. A few other relatives lived on in Korea and Japan. The Yi family was not exterminated by the Japanese and the clan remains large (though I am not sure if it's power survives) and there could be many claimants to the throne if anyone was interested enough to try and restore the royal family. Kojong, however, had not intended that the throne would pass to Sunjong. Sunjong had been mentally incapacitated through court intrigue and it was the Japanese who put him on the throne. He suited their needs admirably. He was not liked and was mentally incapable of ruling. He served their purpose to show that the court was corrupt and should be disposed of. Sunjong was not missed. Kojong had been grooming one his sons, Yi Un, for the throne but the intervention of the Japanese (and probably Kojong's untimely death) stopped Yi Un succeeding Kojong or Sunjong. Yi Un was transported to Japan and forced to marry a Japanese princess at 13 (a common age for arranged marriages). Yi Un is still alive and is officially considered the legitimate heir by a society that promotes the return of the royal family. Yi Un eventually married a European (?) women but she was unable to have children. Yi Un is now about 65. Possibly the person with the most legitimate claim to the throne, though, is Yi Kang. Unfortunately he is very old and does not appear to have any descendents. There are other contenders. I Kil had two sons, Yi Suk and Yi Chung. Yi Suk has led a public and controversial life like playing in bands. He has also, apparently, claimed the throne for himself. One comment on the articles Ray posted. This is not intended to in any way condone the actions of the Japanese Imperial period but for many of the crimes described, such as suppression of democratic rights, arbitrary imprisonment and torture, suppression of the tenant farmers, land surveys to identify land to be seized, excessive and illegal rural taxes, etc., have antecedents in the Chosôn period and some of these practises continued well into the 1980s. Some would contend that some of these practises continue to this day. Regards, Andrew --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: 14 Feb 2002 09:16:21 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #78 - 11 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > < (in March master Ko Back Yong (9th dan) will visit the Netherlands, if > you are in Europe by any chance, feel free to pay us a visit)>> > > As it happens there is a chance I' will be in Amsterdam sometime in March, > it will probably be after the 15th I'd love to stop by the Dojang and see > some techniques, even if I'm going to miss master Ko Back Yong. > Can I get location information? Ofcourse you can, just mail to info@hapkido.nl Master Ko will be visiting from the 6th until the 26th of march. -- kind regards Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 08:49:46 -0500 From: todd miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Original Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wanted to mention that GM Ji studied original Hapkido with Doju Nim Choi for only 3 -4 years as a teenager. :) Choi, Yong Sool did have a curriculum that he taught but it was more of a principle based system rather than a number of techniques system that GM Ji and his followers adopted. I have had some say what do you practice? I say Hapkido for short(Dai Dong Ryu Hapki Yu Sool, Yawara, Yu Sool, Hapki Yu Kwon Sool and maybe some I did not mention). Hapki Todd M. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:31:37 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Questions, we got questions.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Carsten: Always good to hear from you and it HAS been a long dry spell. "...The "founder" page (http://www.hwarangdo.com/hrd2.htm) is also very nice and the people making Korean MA history charts should take a look at this: http://www.allmartialarts.com/KIXCO/History/history/map.htm..." I admire the kind of work it takes to document the various lines of tradition and their relationships to one another. As Ray said, I have some trouble with the initial boxes but I think everybody is entitled to view things as they will. If the Japanese ultra-nationalists had their way we would be thanking Japan for everything from the ox cart to the IC chip. One thing I keep coming back to over and over again, though, Carsten. There is so much focus on the Japanese influence on the Hapkido arts, I still don't understand how it is that the Chinese influences pre-dated the Japanese influences and get so little attention. Have you ever discussed this with GM Lee to get his up-take on it? So far, without going beyond the most current history, Chinese Long Fist, Praying Mantis and one other that escapes me right now were the most popular forms and all have chin-na techniques associated with them. Do you have any thoughts on this? BTW: I saw some pictures of HRD folks wearing uniforms vaguely representative of what I remember as cadet uniforms. Whats-up about that? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 06:22:06 -0800 (PST) From: Gary Pointer To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Yong Ki Song Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, You can find a photo and bio on Yong Ki Song on Page 11 of the Korea Hapkido Federation's Grandmasters Directory. He is listed (6) six names ahead of Kim, Nam Jae and (7) seven ahead of Yu, Chon He. If you really desire contact Kim, Nam Jae and ask him about Song, Yong Ki. This way you have a source directly from ROK in the ROK. This information will also verify fact from fiction. Thanks. Hap Ki ! Gary Pointer Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 09:28:42 -0500 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Hal Whalen - Call Your Buddy Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I got this in my email this am. I am not sure my email address for Hal is current, so here is copy of email. Vic Cushing To: Subject: Harold Whalen I have been trying to find Mr. Harold Whalen many times over the last twenty or so years. I served in the military with him. He, more importantly was the one who sparked my interest in Martial Arts. I have been studying Hapkido with Master Bong Soo Han for about 17 years now. I am no longer with Master Han and would like to contact Harry. We were stationed together in El Paso. If you would be so kind to either forward my email/phone or send me his contact info I would greatly appreciate it. Respectfully, Everett Newell enlighten1@earthlink.net 310 804 5759 --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] GM Yong Ki Song To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 7:15:09 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > He is listed (6) six names ahead of Kim, Nam Jae and (7) seven ahead of Yu, > Chon He. If you really desire contact Kim, Nam Jae and ask him about Song, > Yong Ki. :) KIM Nam-jae is a friend. He was very happy when I was able to hook him up with his former instructor, JI Han-jae. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 07:56:55 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Inquiring minds need to know Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Folks: "....I'm sure Bruce will have a few questions... :) ..." I open with this line from Ray as I suppose I have something of a rep for making one inquiry after another. The reason I am writing this, however, is in response to the numbers of e-mails I have gotten regarding my recent posts about some organizational issues. First off, I would ask folks to save the kudos for others. My shining armour is in the closet and my valiant steed is quietly munching oats out in the barn. My intent was not to take anyone to task. My request for information was exactly that. We Hapkido people have a terrible history of organizations and reorganizations, of switched allegiances and ever-changing ranks and status and titles. I know enough that such things will continue as long as people will be people, and I won't pretend to try and stop that. However, I think that we Hapkido practitioners deserve to know clearly and concisely what claims or announcements are being made and how that information fits into the larger picture. At one time in my Hapkido career it was enough to read the name of an individual and move on to other things. Now, when someone says that they are such&such an authority I need to know how this came about. If someone has trained under an individual I would like to know more about that individual and their relationship to other members of the Hapkido community. The more I dig around in KMT history the more that I find that most of the misunderstandings that have taken place arise from someone filling-in with imaginings what needed to be filled in with fact. The typical reason for this happening is that the facts that were supposed to be represented in that place in Hapkido history were less than stellar or perhaps un-flattering. Maybe this was OK back in the 50-s, 60-s and 70-s when we Americans didn't know better. But the MA/MT practitioner of today is a bit more mature and I think quite a bit more savey. And so we (I) ask questions, and I will bet that folks on this Net, with a little encouragement have more than their share of answers. Good stuff all. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Original Hapkido To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 7:36:06 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I wanted to mention that GM Ji studied original Hapkido with Doju Nim > Choi for only 3 -4 years as a teenager. :) Ji began learning Yawara from Gm Choi at the age of 13. 7 years, 1949 to 1956. At which time he was a 3rd Dan. Yes, he was a rather young man. >From a HKD history article: "In 1958, Ji moved his school to Joong Boo Shi Jang where he continued teaching until April of 1960. During this period, Ji began to add basic kicking and punching techniques taken from other Korean schools. In 1959 he decided that his system was sufficiently different from Choi's culturally patterned Japanese aiki-jiu jitsu to call it 'Hapkido'." Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest