Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:50:09 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #97 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<--------------- The_Dojang mailing list --------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: What is HRD ? Not HKD (Carsten Jorgensen) 2. HRD = HKD w/a trademark (Ray Terry) 3. strained muscle? (Donnla Nic Gearailt) 4. Master Moon (Morgan James) 5. Re: Census thoughts? (Bruce Sims) 6. Re: Hwa Rang Do Stuff (Bruce Sims) 7. Chinese/Korean arts (sam saenz) 8. Little Moon Hyung and Jae Woo Nam (barnettj@swbell.net) 9. Step Sparring (Charles Richards) 10. several items (Hapkido Self Defense Center) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Carsten Jorgensen" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 17:18:49 +0800 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: What is HRD ? Not HKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Me: >> Who is still convinced that Hapkido is, and always have been, a generic term for many different styles. << Ray: >> So you are really saying that HRD is just HKD. Thanks! :) << No, Hwarang Do is not a generic term. Hwarang Do is the name of one style, that's the reason why the name was trademarked, too keep it from becoming generic like "Karate", "Hapkido" and many other have become. Carsten Jorgensen cj@hwarangdo.dk Copenhagen, Denmark -- _______________________________________________ Win a ski trip! http://www.nowcode.com/register.asp?affiliate=1net2phone3a --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 7:24:44 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] HRD = HKD w/a trademark Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Hwarang Do is the name of one style, that's the reason why the name > was trademarked... There we go. Move to the US, file a trademark for Hwarang Kwan Hapkido and it is no longer Hapkido. Lawyers make life so easy... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 14:49:29 +0000 From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Subject: [The_Dojang] strained muscle? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi there folks, you might be able to help me with this. For several months when I stretched my inner thighs I was using the stretch someone recommended here. Then a few weeks ago I was doing this stretch at the gym and one of the trainers stopped me and suggested I do the stretch a bit like one of the yoga positions, one leg at a time - starting standing legs a good way apart, hips forward, bend one knee to side. But instead of the yoga position where you move your hips towards to bent knee, with this one push a little towards the outstretched leg. This seemed to be ok, however, after a rather punishing weights session + stretch, I had PAIN in the groin muscle just at the top of my hip (it joins on to the inner thigh, it's the one that feel tension when you sit cross-legged and lean forward). Not good pain as in stretched pain, but nasty strained pain. Still have it, 4 days later. What am I doing wrong? Or was the trainer wrong? Or did I get excessively warmed up? or was it the lower-body weights that strained the muscle ie the ad/ab ductor machines? (I am doing heavy weights low reps coz I'm fed up not being able to lift anything). I have currently stopped doing tkd because before xmas I got shin splints, knee pain and sore left achilles tendon and decided to give ALL sports a rest until they healed. They are now fine, I am trying to get back into fitness slowly by doing non-impact cardio (bike, elliptical trainer) plus weights to strengthen joints etc. I was hoping not to pick up any more injuries so I could go back to a tkd school around easter time.... Donnla ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Language Technology Group, Division of Informatics Research Assistant 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, Scotland. tel: +44-131-6504656 http://www.iccs.informatics.ed.ac.uk/~donnlan/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Morgan James To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 08:43:26 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master Moon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While in Korea from 1993 - 1994 I was assigned to UNCSF-JSA(United Nations Command Security Force - Joint Security Area) in Pan Mun Jom in the DMZ as part of the American Infantry Scout Platoon there. The unit hired a Master Moon from nearby Moonsan on the other side of the Imjin River to come up to the DMZ and teach our platoon TKD/hand-to-hand combat techniques in the event that we ever had to go one-on-one with any North Koreans during patrols, etc. I do not recall Master Moon's full name. I believe he was a 7th Dan. He spoke veeeery limited English and it was hard for him to communicate to the others exactly what he wanted, but it was easier for me due to the fact that I was already a 2nd Dan at the time so I could pass along to others what he was intending. My question is, have any of you that have been to Korea ever spent any time that far north and ever met Master Moon and have anymore information about him? I consider him a great influence on my martial arts career and would like to hear from anyone who met him. Thank you all. James Morgan, Head Instructor Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy Lewisburg, WV gtkda@intelos.net --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:40:12 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Census thoughts? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Anthony: "..... It's not a huge country but it's packed with people and winding streets which are in a constant state of flux. It would be a Herculean task to research and speak with any authority on "Dojangs in Korea." What I have written here is just the sum of my experience. Remember that my time is split between work and the dojangs I attend. I don't wander the streets at night looking for new dojangs. ...." I suppose, in a way, its not so very different here in the States. One can certainly go to the Yellow Pages and see no end of listings--- especially in the larger cities. I can only imagine what sort of task it would be to list-out every single garage or basement dochang across THIS country! All the same, thanks for providing an overview. I was just thinking back to what I said about approaching some government agency but as I remember one need not be licensed or registered as a MA school in order to run a business in korea (or am I wrong there) and not necessarily identify teaching a MA as the primary mission for the business, right? I think the thing that intrigues me is how, in the land of its origins, Korean MT can be some readily represented as one thing, or another, or both! I have always excused this sort of thing in the States because, well, KMA are relatively unknown to the general public and there are not a few folks who exploit the differences in language and culture to create impressions or invoke authority not really in evidence. I think this is especially true in light of all the opinions that are expressed (on this Net, for instance) about the integrity of various organizations and leaders. That recent issue among the TKD people about improprieties in the leadership seems to suggest that the Koreans could use a little more oversite where such activities have the opportunity to create international embarassments. BTW, Anthony, are the HDGD people doing anything special to stay on top of their quality control and maybe ward off the same sort of splintering that other Korean arts have experienced? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:56:47 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hwa Rang Do Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Carsten: "....Where do you set the limit, it is a style when there are two people posting here or when Taekwondo Times brings two stories a year about seminars, or does it take 10? Sorry, but I really don't get the logic. BTW, I still can't see what organisations out there you think Hwarang Do should be a member of? ...." Of course, you are right--- its not truely logical. What I was sharing was the impression that relative to many other organizations I didn't see HRD as being as public. The sense was that HRD folks tend to keep to themselves. Personally I can see your point about the large curriculum and high standards being a bit limiting. I can also see that if a person were able to master so much material and attain rank of any standing that there would be no small amount of pride in that. My curiousity was piqued when I noticed that in most magazines (for instance) there are large numbers of folks who routinely come up in particular fields. M Presas was always a multi-listed name in BLACK BELT, as was Pelligrini and others. Dr. Jwing-ming Yang is often listed in magazines QI, KUNG FU and TAICHI. In fairness, though, I can imagine that where high standards and a large curriculum are involved most practitioners would find a long term commitment to a single organization and leader a bit daunting. Maybe that scares people off and leaves only the truely committed in the classes. Can't very well fault that. BTW: Just a question thats a bit off to the side. Have any of the folks that you know who are seriously studying HRD had serious instruction in one of the other large HKD groups (ie. Sin Mu, Kuk Sool, etc.)? Have you ever gotten any feedback on how they experience the differences/similarities between the two versions of training? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 09:26:10 -0800 (PST) From: sam saenz To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chinese/Korean arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net There are some similarities between Tae Kwon do and some of the Chinese martial arts from my experiences. I studied Northern Shaolin Ch'uan and Wah Lum Praying Mantis Kung Fu. Some of the stances are the same and alot of the kicks are the same. Northern Shaolin tends to use more kicks and Southern Shaolin uses more hand techniques. Some of the blocking techniques vary a little bit, but you can still see some of the resemblance in both styles. Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "barnettj@swbell.net" Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 12:48:31 -0500 To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] Little Moon Hyung and Jae Woo Nam Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This sounds alot like one of the old TSD forms that most of the STA people did prior to swapping to the Chang-hon patterns back in the last 60's. Master Yates has been semi-unavailable due to family health problems. His teenage daughter is quite ill. I will ask both Master Yates and Master Toney if they remember this form. feel free to email me directly and I will pass it on to both of them. Judy Barnett 1st dan American NamSeoKwan TKD -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 10:47:07 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Step Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I don't think you will find one set of WTF one, three or four step sparrings. I suspect there might be only one for the ATA and perhaps ITF. ??? How about your TSDers? Are there different N step sparring depending on the dojang? Depends on the dojang. Many "splinter" NGB's have similar one steps for example Pan Am TSD's are almost identical to the "old" WTSDA ones. GM Shin, Jae Chul has published a book on "sparring" which includes the 90 numbered techniques to test for 1st Dan 30 Kick-steps, 30-hand one steps, and 30 ho shin sul. I don't know of any other TSD org that has a published set of one steps but Master Mac might? KJN Shin's book can be purchased by non-WTSDA members at their website www.wtsdda.com (higher price than for members). Hope that helps, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TSD Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 15:15:05 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] several items Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I will be happy to loan you my cane. Your not getting out of it like you did in August. :) <> History and Organizations: My first teacher told me that there are two types of martial arts; good teachers and bad teachers. Sure there are great hapkidoin of great teachers, but we have also seen hapkido teachers and practitioners with outstanding credentials and awful technique. We have also seen hapkidoin with no credentials who were not able to brag that my teacher was so and so and they had awesome technique. While it is true that you need a good (and that does not imply famous) teacher to develop a strong foundation in basic motion, my point is that it is the person, not necessarily the pedigree. I do not consider the name hapkido to be generic. I have studied with enough who learned it before me to know what is hapkido and what is not hapkido. The highlight of hapkido for me was when I visited the grave of Choi Young Sool with my teacher, Master J.R. West, Dr. Kimm, He-Young and Master Kim, Jung-Soo. Seminars: Often I here about these high dollar seminars being hosted by one individual and one organization. Personally, I am not interested in spending a lot of money for a seminar and I am not interested in discussing politics or 'my style of hapkido is better than your style of hapkido'. What I am interested in is teaching MY hapkido and learning my teachers hapkido. Weapons: I teach cane, staff, sword, short stick, knife and fan to my students. I do not have the same prerequisite in rank as my teacher does, although one day I will as I hope my dojang is as big as his. But I do tell them when he starts teaching these techniques and why, and I hope that for now they understand that if they can move without falling down I will be happy. Belts: I do not have a problem with belts as we use the name of the dojang on one side and the students name in the other. As both sides are in Hangul, I now do the translations myself and then fax them to the place I get my belts from. Don't forget, we need to get a group picture of all of us (DD members) in Jackson! Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest