Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:10:28 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #109 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<--------------- The_Dojang mailing list --------------->> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Sword Preferences (kevin_janisse) 2. All we are saying, is give Carsten a chance... (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 3. Re: Dojang attendance (Klaas Barends) 4. Re: What is (generic) Hapkido? (jsegovia@mindspring.com) 5. Re: Differences and distinctions in Hapkido (Bruce Sims) 6. Discipline shoes for an undisciplined mind (Ken McDonough) 7. Discipline Shoes (barnettj@swbell.net) 8. Re: Thoughts about Sword seminars (Bruce Sims) 9. discipline shoes (Ray Terry) 10. RE: what is hankido? (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "kevin_janisse" To: Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:49:10 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword Preferences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello all, Just though I would add my own personal insight on this topic of Swords. I have been training with swords for about 14 years (still an infant) and definitely have a preference of what type of sword to use depending on my desired affect. When practicing "Gum Hyung" with quite a bit of "Sword play" I prefer a straight blade due to how the blade feels in my hand, more controlled and balanced. When practicing cutting I definitely like a curved blade due to the weight and feel of the blade though the cut. Each person will develop there own sense of comfort with either type of blade. I have even found that a heavier blade is easier to use than a lighter one without actually adding additional fatigue from the added weight. Overall I can not say that I would rate a curved blade over a straight blade or visa versa. Hope to see many of you in Jackson this weekend and safe travels to all. Sincerely, Kevin M. Janisse --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:50:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] All we are saying, is give Carsten a chance... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi All, I guess I'll add my two cents in here and say that we ought to stop badgering Carsten quite so much. Yes, he has a lot of information to give, but we can get it without being quite so antagonistic. In fact, a lot of it is in the archives or on the web, so that's where I'd send people first. I disagree with some of what Carsten says as well, but he's given us a lot of his beliefs and evidence already, and much of this is just rehashing the same material. Let's not poison the well, Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: 25 Feb 2002 18:07:04 +0100 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Dojang attendance Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Back on the dojang attendance thing. Are the instructors in Korea that > uneffected by commercialism to worry about loosing students given this focus > on being at class 6 days a week? > > If so, I think that is great. Just asking... Seems that with the fairly > recent biz downturn in Korea the instructors there might be less willing > to loose paying students. ??? >From what I heard/saw it became important again to offer quality. So junior masters (4th till 6th dan) started training in the weekends with their master more extensively. Of course you also have schools in Korea who don't care about the attendance of their students. Some schools have arcade games in their dojangs to make extra money. (something which made my teacher very angry) Korea isn't the perfect country where people don't care about money. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:26:50 -0500 From: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: What is (generic) Hapkido? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Carston wrote: > There is > nothing generic about the style "Shotokan Karate" just as there is nothing > generic about "SinMu Kwan Hapkido" This is sort of a bad example because Dojunim Ji has made SinMoo Hapkido into something very different than the Hapkido taught by KHF and KHA schools. If you walked into a seminar run by a senior instructor from the KHF or the KHA, I doubt you'd be able to differentiate them by their Hapkido. But SinMoo Hapkido is very different, both in the specific techniques and in their application as well as the philosophy behind the art. > But there are thousands of very different styles calling themselves Hapkido I don't know if I'd go that far. There's Dojunim Ji's SinMoo Hapkido, there's GM Lim of Taegu who teaches something apparently very close to Dojunim Choi's Yawara with little of Dojunim's Ji influence, there's the Aikido-influenced Hapkido of GM Myung JaeNam and his senior people, and then there's HwaRangDo and KukSoolWon which seem to have very similar KungFu influences (did someone say they both share or shared the same or similar forms?). From my personal experience, there are few schools or kwans within the KHF and KHA I'd call separate styles of martial art. For that matter, I'm sure within Shotokan Karate or WingChun KungFu there are instructors teaching different techniques or the same techniques with different emphasis. Should we consider these to be new, different martial arts styles? > Since it's largely because of GM Ji and his students that the Hapkido name has > "stuck" I, for one, has no problem if we define Hapkido as "all styles from GM > Ji's lineage" Instructors who consider Dojunim Choi as their master would have a problem with this. 8-) > GM Lee does not make any claim to the Hapkido name. > My problem is if anyone think Hwarang Do = the "style" Hapkido just because > the name was used generically for a few years for all the non-"Taekwondo" > styles in Korea. But Carston, HwaRangDo isn't considered by some to be part of Hapkido merely because the term Hapkido was (arguably) a generic term in Korea. Both the Lee brothers earned high rank through Choi YongSul and trained with Dojunim Ji, and by their own admission, taught Hapkido until they left the art (apparently because they felt Hapkido was being ruined by the influence of money). Ignoring the similarity of styles, these are very good reasons why HwaRangDo is lumped in with Hapkido. By the way, has GM Lee said the art he was teaching changed drastically between the time he was teaching Hapkido and when he began teaching HwaRangDo? > painful as it may be in the beginning, the term Hapkido has always been used > for different styles (Kwan). A kwan is not a style. Jesse --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:51:59 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Differences and distinctions in Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Carsten: "....But there are thousands of very different styles calling themselves Hapkido, that's not unique. One of the problems on this list has been that when one person says "In Hapkido we do like this..." everybody have been thinking of their own style, which many times are very different from the original posters Hapkido. So people think they talk about the same, but actually they don’t. But if we agree that many very different styles uses the same name, we can discuss which styles should be able to use the Hapkido name for their style....." Well said. I am thinking that were I to go into a particular school such as GM Lees' or GM Seos' and characterize their art as "a Hapkido art" I would probably have an arguement on my hand. Where I see an advantage to this, however, is that we could have a reasonably intelligent experience comparing and contrasting our respective methods for executing various moves and techniques because the Hapkido arts share some common aspects. IMHE two major points seem to hamper this. 1.) Exclusivity. There are a variety of ways of executing a particular technique. When a person takes the position that theirs' is the one, only and truthful way to perform a technique that sorta dries things up right there. At the other end of the spectrum is point two-- 2.) Ignorance. There may be a variety of ways of executing a technique but if one does not know the basic guidelines, body movement, goals or what-have-you I would reasonably expect sharing to stop right there. And I am not necessarily talking always about the technical aspects. For instance, I have had people show-up in class with me who can't get past the idea that the class is not an opportunity to show just how bad they can be. Its not a matter of what they do but rather how they think that makes for problems. Along this last line let me say that for me personally I have experienced more differences of opinion about how material is INTENDED to be taught, rather than what IS taught. One persons' "important point" is another persons' "ain't too important," and when these two guys can't resolve their differences of opinion, well thats when somebody walks. I think this is why I am always harping on the idea of a uniform catalogue of techniques. Maybe we won't get it because of everybodys' priorities regarding what the most import thing to learn is. But my guess is, teaching approaches to one side, when all is said and done Hapkido practitioners would be doing about the same thing, right? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 09:46:52 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Discipline shoes for an undisciplined mind Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A poster asked: To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Discipline Shoes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I ordered a pair of the discipline low-top shoes this afternoon, and was wondering if anyone tried them before?> Response: Yes, I have several pair. Quite good. Using them tonight in an Eskrima class. But, occasional wash them since they retain odors. Bye, Ken McD... Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "barnettj@swbell.net" Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 12:51:58 -0500 To: "the_dojang@martialartsresource.net" Subject: [The_Dojang] Discipline Shoes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net website is www.disciplinefootwear.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 11:13:33 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Thoughts about Sword seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Richard: ".....It seems that sword training is facing some of the same problems that Hapkido does. Some people think that because they watch the Highlander TV show that they are Korean style ninjas who can cross blades with the best of them. I have four years of formal sword training and feel that I am "good". Not, a ninja, Not great, NOT an expert. So I don't offer regular sword classes in my school...." . I'm not sure HOW I feel about this. As I was reading your post I was thinking back to last Halloween when small children were running around dressed up like Luke Skywalker and Highlander MacCloud and banging each other over the head with their plastic toys. Its all in fun because nobody actually expects much more than a bit of rowdy fun out of it. The other night I had the honor of being asked to participate in a demo with GM Koo for a Korean celebration of the Chinese New Year. Given the size of the room, the low ceiling and the crowded conditions I was stunned when GM asked me to perform a hyung which easily required half-again as much room as I had to work with. Whatever my technique was that night, I can say honestly that my focus was impeccable. Afterwards I had folks coming up to me expressing their admiration for my "intensity." I share these two anecdotes because I think it is a telling difference in the world of Korean swordsmanship. I think there are a lot of folks who like the drama and theatre of waving a sword around and cutting plastic bottle in two. I think there are even some teachers who trade on this sort of crap. On the other hand, GM Koo trains me to use the Korean sword as a weapon and there is never any doubt that is whats going on. Is it a medium for building character? Absolutely. Is it somewhat out-dated and anachronistic? No doubt. Is it a match for a Glock or an Uzi? No way. But I never go into class or leave believing that I have done anything other than train with a weapon intended to do major damage to my opponent. Of course, this is just me. But now I am wondering if, when you offer your workshops, is there something that you do that lets people know which end of the continuum you are standing on? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 10:56:40 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] discipline shoes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Re Discipline shoes, how do folks compare them to the Adidas TKD shoes? Pros/cons of each? BTW, don't make the mistake of going to discipline.com instead of the one for the shoes... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Mon, 25 Feb 2002 13:02:10 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: what is hankido? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In response to numerous emails, I am posting some general information on the art of hankido… Hankido is a new method of hapkido that was developed the late Grandmaster Myong Jae Nam. Hankido is primarily intended to be a defensive martial style and should be used for purely defensive purposes. When an attacker confronts a hankido practitioner, he or she should endeavor to use the least amount of force in order to control the situation. One of the goals of hankido is the development of a non-violent attitude, which can be achieved through self-control, patience, and forgiveness. Because of this, a strict ethical and moral worldview is therefore inherent to hankido. This is manifested in the four basic elements of courtesy, respect, right attitude and the understanding of one’s own center. It is non-competitive and not combat oriented. The late Grandmaster Myong Jae Nam developed hankido in order to be easy to learn. Grandmaster Myong was born to a family of martial artists. A student of martial arts for over 50 years, he became a master of hapkido and teacher in 1959 and later established the IHF in 1981. Hankido, one of his most significant achievements, has been in the making since 1985 and was publicly introduced in 1992. In the course of his research, Grandmaster Myong would wake up early in the morning to practice his breathing techniques. One day he had an inspiration and started practicing what would soon be hankido techniques in front of a mirror. During the practice he realized how easily these new techniques were developed. First he practiced by counting out loud. Later developments came while practicing to music. Hankido consists of twelve basic self-defense techniques that are connected to twenty-four breathing techniques. Hankido practitioners should carefully and correctly practice the twelve basic techniques slowly and quietly several thousands times. Since there are only twelve basic techniques, mastery can come easily and quickly compared to other martial arts that require you to learn several thousand techniques. The basic punches, kicks, locks and throws can be learned in a very short period of time, probably three to four months. Hankido is a very versatile martial art; practitioners learn how to perform their techniques using both the left and right side of their bodies. One other facet of hankido is that it can be practiced virtually anywhere. It can be practiced alone or with another person. It can be used as both a self-defense technique or as exercise. Practiced alone, the practitioner must visualize an imaginary opponent and apply techniques as if this opponent were real. Instead of concentrating on the presence of an opponent, the practitioner should instead execute techniques with precision and power. Hankido techniques are practiced at an intentionally slow pace, although these same techniques would be performed more quickly in an actual self-defense situation. Offensive techniques (Chun Ki Bup) are intended to increase the practitioner’s internal power or ki. Defensive techniques (Ji Ki Bup) will improve muscles, bones, and organs. Offensive techniques are important but cannot stand-alone. In order to become a great martial artist, the harmony that defensive techniques provide must be utilized. Without these the hankido practitioner cannot be truly effective. Defensive techniques are also noteworthy for their health benefits. By practicing defensive and offensive techniques together as an interconnected whole, the practitioner will radiate ki, the ultimate power of hankido. Lastly, some say that hankido is not an effective martial art but one has to ask themselves, what does the word effective mean? Is something effective when you learn a technique in several minutes and are able to apply it immediately but only in certain situations? Thus having to learn thousands of techniques so you can respond to all situations. Or is something effective when you study a principle for years and you can apply it in any given situation? ===== International HKD Federation-Sun Mu Kwan USA www.ushankido.org Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games http://sports.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest