Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 17:26:10 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #125 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Tossed (Rudy Timmerman) 2. (no subject) (Randall Sexton) 3. Jackson Seminar (Rudy Timmerman) 4. Re: The_Dojang digest, The 16th International Hapkido Seminar (SSHapkido@aol.com) 5. Sword Cleaning (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 6. Hapkido Seminar in Jackson (ABurrese@aol.com) 7. RE: Rank Belt (Morgan James) 8. Re: TKD Hyung Question (Bruce Sims) 9. Re: Organizations and Accountability (Bruce Sims) 10. Re: Question to post/Rank Belts (Laurie S.) 11. Hapkido and T'aekwondo (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 12. Gup Belts (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 23:39:57 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tossed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Hackworth writes: > Actually getting tossed out of an organization is not that uncommon. Many > organizations will not allow convicted felons to belong to their > organization. So if for some reason an instructor gets convicted of a > crime, and it does happen, they are "tossed out". I too have tossed out some undesireable Black Belts; however, I have never "doctored" my records to try and remove any "blemishes". IMHO, my responsibility is to maintain accurate records AND keep my dojang free from undesireables such as the one you mentioned. Removing from the records anyone who does not fit the "requirements of the moment" seems like white washing to me. On the other hand removing them from my dojang is my duty. BTW, not everyone who is removed from the records of some org's was tossed out, some left on their own volition:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 23:57:01 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is my dilemma: Every black belt teaches different and sometimes I get very confused. I tell my students to consider themselves lucky if another black belt shows them different ways to do a technique! My problem is that I find myself getting very offended by some of the blackbelts when they help me. Most of them are rude, arrogant, and down right mean. Here you are learning how not to be; again consider it a positive experience! Remember : 1. The world is what you think it is. 2. Energy flows where attention goes. Randall Sexton "In your practice start by learning one and continue until you understand ten. >From ten you must return to the original one." --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 01:02:56 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Jackson Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Masters Renee and JR West truly have one of the most incredible gatherings going on in Jackson, and I am proud to have had the opportunity to share some technique with seminar participants. Even though it is a 2600 mile drive for me, and I just made it safely back home a few hours ago, you can count on me showing up for next year's session if you'll have me. I wish to thank Masters West, and all of the other folks who made me feel truly welcome, for their hospitality. A special thanks to Master Booth and his Australian group for the beautiful award you presented me with. It was such a surprise that I was speechless (something that seldom happens to me:). I am truly humbled, and I hope you will convey my most sincere thanks to your Black Belts back home. I will surely take you up on your invite to have me do some seminars downunda. My students look forward to your next visit to the great white North. The West seminar is an event that no dedicated martial artist should miss. The Instruction is superb, and the atmosphere is just amazing. It was an amazing opportunity to spend time on the mat with such notable Instructors as Master West, Master Booth, Master Hilland, Master Mc Henry, Master Hodder, Master Burrese, Master Richards, and the host of other great martial artists I did not mention because I'm too fatigued to remember everyone. One thing stands out at this seminar. Masters West attracts some of the most talented Masters of Korean martial arts in the world, and they worked together in an atmosphere of true brotherhood..... something I have seldom witnessed in my fifty plus years of training. Even though there were at least four or five different associations present, everyone worked toward the common goal of sharing and caring. It was also wonderful to meet Master Terry and some of the other folks I met trough the Dojang Digest over the past few years. Ray does a wonderful job of creating a venue whereby we can chat, flame, or otherwise converse with likeminded folks. We owe you a debt of gratitude Ray. BTW, thanks for the Shiatsu job, it made the trip back a bit easier:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 4 From: SSHapkido@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 03:04:25 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, The 16th International Hapkido Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Everyone, In reply to Mr. Janisse's post, I'd like to say that it was a great pleasure to meet Master Timmerman. His skill as a practitioner and teacher is very evident. But more than that, he is a very humble and graceful man. Thanks to Mr. Janisse and Master Timmerman for your assistance at the seminar. Hope to see you both again. Suzanne Sanders West's Hapkido --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:25:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sword Cleaning Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Please DO NOT use ANY oil to clean a blade. Clove oil is used on the blade AFTER you clean it to prevent further rust. My blade I practice with was made in 1884 and rust is a constant problem. It is important to learn how to clean the blade correctly. You do not oil a modern blade that will not rust or that can't be properly disassembled. For more information you can go to http://www.jssus.org/ or go to the sword cleaning article directly at: http://www.jssus.org/Art7.html. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 08:08:24 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Seminar in Jackson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am now back in Montana after a fantastic weekend in Jackson, MS. The 16th International Hapkido Seminar hosted by Master J.R. West and his wife Master Renee West was everything people say it was and more. If you have any interest in Hapkido and how martial artists should come together for learning, training, and fun, you need to attend this event. It was a great time on and off the mat. Over 250 people training over 3 days. It was great to get to meet so many people that I only knew through E-mail and phone calls. That, and to learn from so many awesome instructors. Highlights for me included: Master West's sessions on speed takedowns, chokes, military techniques and the blackbelt class. I partnered up with Master Charles Richards for two of these classes and had a great time. Master Booth's dan bong sessions. If you have not seen Master Booth use the short stick, you are missing something. He is incredibly fast with it, and knows how to put a hurting on someone in more ways than you can count. Master Timmerman's rope techniques class. We'll be doing some hog tying in my classes this week so I don't forget the things I learned in this workshop. I think Master Timmerman would have taught 24/7 the entire weekend, that's how passionate he is about martial arts and helping others. Working with my host Lee Underwood and new friend Sharon Tkach during Mr. Borucki's punch defense class. Learning a TSD form and more about that style in Master Dennis McHenry's TSD class Friday. Besides what he taught, he gives a great example of what an instructor should be. (Not to mention the demo he and his daughter performed - She will never have to worry about any guys acting up with her) After the classes, a great time and sharing of information continued through the night. The conversations in restaurants, hotel rooms, and the hotel bar were educational and informative as well. The friendships made this weekend were as great as the training. It was so refreshing to see so many people, from all ranks, coming together to share and learn. Egos and politics were left at home, and it was a fun and educational time for everyone. I could go on for more pages, but let me end by saying the seminars in Jackson are incredible, and I encourage everyone to attend if you have the chance. A special thanks to Master West, his wife and all of his students that helped put this event on and made me and everyone else feel so welcome. I can't wait till next time! Alain Burrese www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Morgan James To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:29:43 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Rank Belt Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I buy all of my Gup and Dan belts as well as dobaks from Choi Bros., http://www.choibrothers.com/ . I highly recommend them. They provide great quality and durability. James Morgan Greenbrier Tae Kwon Do Academy --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:00:06 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: TKD Hyung Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray et al: "....Sorry, I wasn't clear. My fault. Those froms are > seldom used in Korea. > That was all I meant....." Little help here. I know that in Hapkido there are some hyung and not all Hapkido practitioners use the same--- or any--- hyung. However, I though the idea of having an ITF or WTF was to have international standards. Am I mis-understanding the TKD issue regarding Forms when I read that there are different hyung inside and outside of Korea? Need a little clarification here. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:34:03 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Organizations and Accountability Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Patrick: "....I agree that the individual should be able to exhibit documents. However, my experience tells me that the doubts that exist in the minds of most are unallayable, even with "proper" documentation....." As I was reading your post I was also thinking back to the Great Depression and how the government held-back intervention in the financial collapse in the mistaken belief that the economy would be "self-righting". The metaphor used at the time was one of a ship pitched to one side that would straighten back up of itself. As one individual pointed out at the time, the economic situation was closer to a ship being cap-sized rather than simply pitched off center, and administrative intervention was much needed. I mention this because I think that we in the Hapkido community--- in fact,I suspect, the entire KMA community--- are sorely in need of intervention -- top to bottom -- to address a series of conditions which threaten our traditions and their perpetuation. Its not just that there are too many organizations, inflated ranks and bogus certifications but that the entire idea of the role of organizations has become perverted. Originally, an organization was a way of facilitating interaction among like-minded individuals. One person or small group was designated to do the heavy-lifting so that the larger part of the membership would be free to enjoy investing themselves in the activity of the organization. Everybody chipped in to off-set expenses. However, now organizations are little more than funnels for membership funds and the accountability for the organizations purpose is becoming less and less. Accountability is the #1 Bogie-man in our modern culture--- and especially here in the States. School students hate tests, and teachers hate keeping grades. People duck the traffic cop and nobody enjoys paying taxes. However, if a person identifies themselves as an organization leader, it is incumbent on them to accept responsibility for holding members of their organization for adhering to rules and remaining within the guidelines of that organization. As with the Great Depression, I, too, wish this was a "self-righting" model. Experience has proved otherwise. Organizations need to be cared after, monitored and maintained, and that means time, tedium, paperwork and attention. Otherwise, whats the point other than to funnel cash one way or the other? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 09:45:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Question to post/Rank Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tyranmarla@aol.com wrote: <<<>>> I had the same problem when I first started out (in NJ). I got frustrated also. I had an idea. I would ask the master instructor questions while he was showing the class a technique. Is this right? What am I doing wrong? .... stuff like that. He'd end up showing me the correct way. Or I would catch him off quard before or after class, and casually say I'm having trouble with this move, can you show me how to do it real quick? That way, you are not "dropping names" or blaming anyone. You just wanna know. It worked :o) Gary wrote: <<<>>> My school uses Pro Force. I think they are "in between". Not too stiff, or too flimsy. Except when ya get one that is too long and get wacked in the eye ball when ya did a jump kick ..... ouch! lol Laurie (Dizzy) yellow belt TKD (5th gup TSD) _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 10:20:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido and T'aekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Patrick wrote: > Your insight on an awareness of range is a good one. And since sparring can > more closely resemble a real fight, I agree it is a worthy past time. We > have always sparred in my Hapkido, so I have never HAD to go outside for > this experience. But given the value both you and I attribute to sparring - > how does that explain the hunger TKDers have for HKD, which I was > addressing? This looks like either a rhetorical question or a troll, but ok, I'll bite. I would say that TKDers want to "complete" their art, and they see HKD as a natural complement to their art. It is another Korean art, and grew up with TKD, so they do complement each other well, if one's aim is to develop a "more realistic" t'aekwondo. I'd say there's better solutions, but none that are very helpful for a professional instructor (read: teaching for a living) of t'aekwondo. Once you've committed yourself to teaching a certain art, your school gains momentum and it becomes harder to change direction. That, combined with the power of TKD's name recognition, should explain the trend. Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 07:45:10 -0800 (PST) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Gup Belts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Hi everyone, been awhile since I've posted. Anyway, I am wondering which rank belts everyone uses/prefers. I don't like Century as they won't stay tied, so switched to IKON, but they are way too stiff. What is everyone out there using? <> Gary, I hate Century Belts because they're inferior in quality/workmanship...the ends are cut and heated not sewn. I use Rhee Max for almost all Gup Belts. They are an American owned family business, and the product is made in the USA. The ends of the belts are sewn. In an emergency, I use RHINGO belts (here in Doraville, GA) which are also sewn ends. I believe Asian World belts used to also be sewn, but I haven't ordered from them in years. For Dan belts I use Sang Moo Sa. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest