Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 15:37:30 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #133 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. KI Breaking redefined (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Re: Black Belt Fees (Piotr Bernat) 3. ITF competitors expelled (Piotr Bernat) 4. Hi Bruce=a learned approach= Hapido and ramblings (Ken McDonough) 5. I get no credit...he he (Ken McDonough) 6. So, you wanna debate mate !! Hapkido vs. Mutual Admiration Society (Ken McDonough) 7. Now I gotta take on a Lady ! (Ken McDonough) 8. Re: KKW fees (Piotr Bernat) 9. Upcoming travels (J. R. West) 10. So TRUE (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 11. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #132 - 14 msgs (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 12. DD Question (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 13. Re: WTF Dan Vertification Fees (Chosondo@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 01:01:20 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] KI Breaking redefined Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > You can imagine ma suprize when I put my ki in the truk lok twise and it > broke both times. Hey Bruce, try the push button thingy next time:) See you in Erie on March 16 weekend. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:45:50 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Black Belt Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > There > are cases where some people cry about not having money and then you see them > blowing money on other things, but there are also those who truly don't have > the money. Now I own the dojang that I trained in and I always judge each > student separately, to do other wise is a sign of ignorance and stupidity. Agreed. Been there, done that. Here in Poland the 1st dan KKW testing costs a bit more than US$100. But keep in mind that US$100 can be as much as 50 % of monthly salary here. I saw people who can afford say 5th Dan KKW testing without any problems and some who have problems with paying the 1st Dan. There are also some who do feel it is not worth as much money, especially when it comes to Poom grades. I`m also not too keen to pay more than my full monthly income for my (future) 4th Dan KKW, so I can understand it. BTW, the monthly tuition fees here are around US$10-12. Best regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:49:07 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF competitors expelled Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here`s an information that made me a bit upset... Taken from www.taekwondo.com.pl: "A meeting of Polish Taekwondo (ITF) Association`s Board took place on March 2nd. During this meeting, it was decided to expel following competitors from the Polish Taekwondo Association, due to their decision to take part in WTF styled competitions: Kamila Gigon, Iwona Idzikowska, Tomasz Idzikowski, Piotr Kania, Dorota Majorkiewicz, Monika Markowska, Krzysztof Olejniczak, Maciej Osowski, Jakub Rojek Mr Jerzy Litwinski, Head Instructor of SKS "Start" Olsztyn (the school the abovementioned competitors are members of) and former ITF Female National Team Coach, was expelled from the Board of the PTA and deprived of his grading examiner license for the very same reason." I would be really glad to read your opinion about it. Best regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 06:04:08 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hi Bruce=a learned approach= Hapido and ramblings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, you partially noted: Response: Good response. I would like to make Master West's seminar down South (have personally met the gentleman, and he knows I think he is the most from coast to coast)and will eventually do that. But, in the back of my mind I know that I will never reach the level of Narvana in Hapkido as some Masters on this list have. So, when you deal with the reality of your level and abilities, then plug in the learning process--I catch your drift. I think the Masters here have to understand and advertise (which Master West does) that seminars are for all levels of abilities and ages. If I did not have to work from 5 am to 6 pm to feed 2 boys, and my expensive hobbies, then I would be able to devote more time to training. But the reality is I do not have that luxury. So, I have to train on what I believe is the most effective here and now modality. Actually, if I had a good Hapkido Master near me I would rather pay him to provide me with private lessons. That way, it is direct and to the point and I could immediately improve my motion for work on the mat. I got away from Kuk Sool Won for the reason that the trappings of tradition and the encumberances of etiquette and bowing came in "my" way of keeping my rear end safe on the street. When I lived in Korea, I did meet a Kuk Sool Won Master and we worked out privately in his Dojang. Now, that was the ultimate training program. Give me a sweaty boxing gym or have a guy show me how to throw an opponent. Cut out the fat--I want the meat, baby ! My point was, tongue in cheek, that there are all levels of expertise and not everyone is able to devote the needed time to reach the pinnacle of a certain art. So many of us chug along and nickle and dime it hoping to pick up a few points here and there. To that end I have become comfortable knowing where my place and status is in the real world. Hence, if I need to defend myself I have those skills. But, for me to discuss the complexities of motion and the minute details of throwing and falling correctly= forgetabout it ! That is what my analysis was trying to say. Let me see if I can stir up the pot some more. He he. Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 06:12:42 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I get no credit...he he Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce, you correctly noted: Response: Well, at least I got the pot partially stirred. He he. Anyways, I was thinking about all these guys talking about Master West's seminar. But, I get no credit. When I got thrown off the "other list" I told Master West to get on Ray's list and then Ray's list started becoming the Hapkido Masters list. So, actually I deserve some credit for bringing these guys together. Right ? So, there ! McD... Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 06:32:41 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] So, you wanna debate mate !! Hapkido vs. Mutual Admiration Society Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A poster noted: Response: Nah, I am not confusing the arts vice practitioner. I am trying to get away from all this mutual admiration society stuff, e.g., "Oh, John, you threw me so nice. It was a pleasure having you throw me...your motion was so good...I learned how to fall on my derriere correctly...thanks and kisses..." Or, "Bob...to share a drink of water with you at the seminar was the most moving time of my life...I learned how to drink water properly that day by watching your wrist motion..." Or, "Tom, driving with you across the U.S. was great. Even with your farting and not brushing your teeth, I learned that smells do not matter. It is the experience of sharing with you that made the trip so great...hugs..." Common peoples !!! Starting to remind me of the feminization of the military. I want some down and dirty stories and how you got your rear ends out of a sling using your arts in the real world. Why, I had a martial arts instuctor in Korea who would go down to T Street in Pusan, and he would test his skills on the Russians in the bars. He was an ex-Marine. He would come home with blood and tell his wife that wrist lock # three works. Then he would go to the GI bars run by the Korean Mafia and take on a few of the bouncers. He was truly a guy practicing his art in the real world. Forget about etiquette for him !! That is down and dirty, folks. Not this "Joey, to meet you and shake your hand had me drooling all over myself at the seminar." Geez, come on enough. I want some good stories like the time you were in a flea bag hotel and made your way to a local watering spot and three guys from the docks were trying to shake you down. What did you do ? I am sittin' here with my belly hanging out of my dirty T-Shirt, chompin' on a greasy cigar in one hand, and a shot of whiskey in another ! That is the attitude and mood I am in. Don't want this touchy feely kind of stuff right now. Want some good stories, OK ? That is not confusing the art with the practitioner is it? He he. McD...aka, The Man from Glad ! P.S. The author of this piece is trying to goad you. He he. Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 06:47:09 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Now I gotta take on a Lady ! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This lovely lady responded to me, Response: Dag Nabit (sic) ! Your going too far with that analogy. First, to carry a nuke under your arm takes away the element of surprise. Suggest you carry too short 21 inch sticks or those expandable batons. Or, I have this plastic Kerambit that looks like a key chain. Good stuff ! Blatant bait ? I say, when your with a nice lady, spend the time and then cut bait ! I would like an analysis of how a svelte lady does against a big Kahuna guy who have the same level of training. I mean none of this, "OK, let us change the exercise rules...Lady gets to do 5 push ups...guy 50...and all is equal" Take Sharon and place her against Billy Bob. Both have equal training. Billy Bob is 6'5" of pure Cajon muscle. Sharon, well I don't know. Never meet the lady. Let us say Sharon is 6'0 and in good shape. Both on on the street in downtown Taegu near the Continental Hotel. Billy Bob pinches Sharon in the wrong place. Sharon, well trained in the arts, wants none of this. She turns and... So what happens next ? Anyway, enough writing for one day. Today's agenda: - Jog and work out - Clean up basement - Take out the 67 Chevelle SS with 396 and 370 hp - Send in resume - Work the heavy bag See, I am a normal guy. Peace, McD... Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 08:49:26 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: KKW fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > What?!?!?!?! Someone said that the Kukkiwon charges $450! My new dojang is a > Kukki-WTF school ..... eeekkkkkkk. The IMA (TSD) didn't charge that much. > Sheesh. The actual KKW fee for 1st Dan is US$70 I believe. The rest depends on the school you train in (in the countries where the individual instructors are allowed to make Dan reccomendations) or by the national federation (in the countries where only the national federaction can make such reccomendations). Best regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "J. R. West" To: "Martial Science" , "Dojang Digest" Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 14:28:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Upcoming travels Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear friends: I have finalized some dates for future HapKiDo seminars. I will be in Mosinee, WI on April 20th ( cwmai@aol.com ) and Hampstead, MD on May 4th master@globalhapkido.com ), and I will balso be in Tampa, FL hcsorabk@mindspring.com ) sometime in June, but the dates have not been firmed up as of yet. Please contact me or my hosts if you have any questions. Thanx...J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:02:18 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] So TRUE Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net My objective opinion is that you're confusing the art with the practitioner. I concur! On any given day, I may very well be able to take down my opponent regardless of the style of Martial Art. That same person, however, may return with carefully thought out knowledge of my ability (or perhaps an unquenchable desire to beat me) and take me down during our next encounter... I try to explain to new students who ask whether I can REALLY teach them to defend themselves that the truth is, if a person does NOT have the heart to fight, then the training will fail to benefit them fully. There are many other benefits to training, such as physical conditioning/improved health, etc., however fighting is an entirely separate issue. I CANNOT turn a bunny into a tiger, so to speak... --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:05:54 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #132 - 14 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << When I lost my job when I was an orange belt in TSD, my instructor let me work for the monthly fee. I cleaned the dojang for two months to be able to train. To thank him, I kept it up even after I got a new job. >> That is the ultimate mark of a great instructor... --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 16:08:54 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] DD Question Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Question for the DD... For those of you that have trained in more than one style, what elements made you remain in one style versus the other? --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Chosondo@aol.com Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:29:24 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: WTF Dan Vertification Fees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Please allow me to offer a few words about the subject of WTF dan certification fees. Actual certification fees is only $90.00 for 1st dan. This is all that is submitted to the USTU or WTF in order for a 1st dan certificate to be issued. In reference to the matter being discussed, the remaining $360.00 essentially goes to the instructor or school. This, or any additional fees are arbitary. I guess it depends on how much the instructor feels he can get away with. Ian A. Cyrus, Headmaster ICF --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest