Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:32:44 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #140 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (Rudy Timmerman) 2. Re: Challenges of Training Students (Bert Edens) 3. Re: Challenges of Training Students (Dominic Mitchell) 4. Asking questions (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: Netiquette Smily (David N. Beck) 6. Re: waiting for your Dan (kevin_janisse) 7. What is the best shot (Rudy Timmerman) 8. 15 rounds (michael tomlinson) 9. Re: Waiting for your dan (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 10. New May 2002 Training Dates (TNTcombatives@aol.com) 11. waiting times for dan degrees (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 12. Hapkido Training New York City (KenKimrey@aol.com) 13. TKD and Self defence (for (Laurie S.) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:53:32 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yvan writes: > Do you guys think the waiting times for dan promotions in hapkido should be > respected as in tkd for ex/ 1 dan min 1 year 2 dan 1 year after 1st dan; > 3rd dan two years after 2nd dan....etc > yvan Hello Yvan: Mastering martial arts of any kind takes practice, practice, and more practice. I believe that patience in earning Dahn rank is a good thing, and the above minimums will help students practice the stuff "they think they learned" a bit longer. Technique must be turned into muscle memory. In addition, it is no secret that most serious martial artists do not think much of thirty year old grand masters. Problem is that the thirty year olds don't seem to realize this before they ruin their reputation. In my school, I help my students not make this mistake:) Fast promotion also seems to be a thing that many orgs use to make more money, and little regard is given to quality. In the end, this is up to the Master of the school, and s/he can usually tell if a student warrants promotion based on quality of technique and hours spent in the dojang. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:20:59 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Challenges of Training Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Ms. Tyranmarla >Good question, I retrospect I wish I would have asked the same thing. >My biggest challenge is the student who thinks he knows it all, and instead >of listening to a correction on techniques, he says "I know" or a brand new >student who is always saying "I know". Even if you think you are doing >something correctly, listen to your instructor, there maybe some fine point >he is trying to show you or correct. And remember none of us have all the >knowledge, never say "I know" because even when you achieve your Black Belt >you still have things to learn. At our dojang, whenever someone says "I know" or starts trying to justify why they did what they did, some high rank will inevitably say, "And the correct answer is...", to which most everyone will chime in "Yes, ma'am" or "Yes, sir", as appropriate. Helps them learn the proper answer. Certainly they can question things of their instructor, but on the floor during class is not the time. And if it's a high rank who's giving the "I know" answer, the correction is also typically followed by push-ups for either the offending student or the entire class... :-) >The second thing is a new students lack of respect. I know respect is >earned but as a Black Belt instructor you have earned a certain degree of >respect. For example, in the previous example if these students would say >"I know, Ma'am" at least you know they have respect for there teachers. I think that Respect is also taught. Especially with our younger kids, we remind them often of how they should answer, especially when you get "Yeah." as an answer. :) We also remind them regularly, making sure the spectators can hear, that they need to answer up appropriately at home and school too. With those that seem to have difficulties, we add that as homework and a requirement for their next belt promotion. Almost always does the trick, especially since the parents are wanting to see the politeness and respect in their children, and can use the requirement for promotion as an incentive at home too. >Hope this helps >Ms. Anne (1st Dan TKD) <> - Bert Edens 1st Degree Recommended, Level 2 Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 3 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dominic Mitchell Date: 12 Mar 2002 13:30:41 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Challenges of Training Students Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net On another level you will often get to train with more experienced students, even if they are not black belt this does not mean they can't show you some details. I am 6th gup. I train 5 hours at the club 3 days a week, and I also train about 5 hours at home plus daily flexibility training. I have help the instructors with the kids class for over a year now. I do not get frustrated with beginners that tries hard and listen to advices. I had the experienced of working with a white belt 2 weeks ago. For many technics we were doing he was arguing with me. I had been doing these technics for close to 3 years ... As a beginners you may have difficulty seeing some subtleties and this is normal. If you are training with someone more advanced chances are that he has seen the subtleties. Cheers, Dominic. "CAB&S Skjold" writes: > Ms. Tyranmarla > Good question, I retrospect I wish I would have asked the same thing. > My biggest challenge is the student who thinks he knows it all, and instead > of listening to a correction on techniques, he says "I know" or a brand new > student who is always saying "I know". Even if you think you are doing > something correctly, listen to your instructor, there maybe some fine point > he is trying to show you or correct. And remember none of us have all the > knowledge, never say "I know" because even when you achieve your Black Belt > you still have things to learn. > The second thing is a new students lack of respect. I know respect is > earned but as a Black Belt instructor you have earned a certain degree of > respect. For example, in the previous example if these students would say > "I know, Ma'am" at least you know they have respect for there teachers. > Hope this helps > Ms. Anne (1st Dan TKD) --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:41:49 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Asking questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tyranmarla writes: >I have asked lots of questions about how to understand the teaching methods of >SOME black belts, and I have only been given 1 positive response. I am not thin >skinned, I just want to learn how to understand the higher ranks. Hello Tyranmarla: By the look of your posts, you have given me some idea of what it might be like to teach you. You are eager, full of questions, and somewhat disappointed that the answers are not forthcoming as quick as you wish. Pderhaps you need to slow it down a might and "listen". When you first start training, there are many basic things you must absorb. Perhaps your questions get in the way of learning what is important right now. Leave the questions that have little to do with what you are learning at the moment on the shelf. They will surely come up again later (if you are still around), and the time to deal with them is when they become important to the lesson of the day. You ask what is the most frustrating thing to an Instructor. My answer to that would have to be this question: "But what if I do that". This question is often asked by newbies, and sure enough when you give them a quick answer (you are trying to get back to your lesson plan) they come up with the next "what if". Since there are well over 3000 techniques, we are relatively sure we can come up with an answer for you, but that would be at the expense of those who are interested what I'm trying to teach at the moment. I hope you will take my advise, slow down a bit, and learn what is important today without becoming so frustrated you'll quit. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:48:58 -0600 (CST) From: "David N. Beck" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Netiquette Smily Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dakin wrote: >(rather like John >Wayne's classic >catch phrase, "smile when you say that stranger."). Uh, wasn't that from The Virginian? Before my time, but I don't think that was the Duke. David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS SDVS-2, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "kevin_janisse" To: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:09:25 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: waiting for your Dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >> Do you guys think the waiting times for dan promotions in hapkido should be respected as in tkd > for ex/ 1 dan min 1 year, 2 dan 1 year after 1st dan; 3rd dan two years after 2nd dan....etc>> Every system of MA seems to have it's own standard of quality and time required in order to be promoted to the next level. It is usually based on a students ability to inderstand and teach the material they have learned and also having the mental/emotional capacity to handle the responsibility of a higher rank. IMHO a first Dan is simply a person who has proven there ability understand basic principles. With that in mind they are now ready to actually start learning the MA's. As far as time needed between promotions, it all depends on the system they are learning and the standard of quality set be the systems leaders. I have seen holders of 5th Dan or above ranks who have been studying for less than 12 years. I have also seen 3rd and 4th Dan's who have been studying over 20 years. IMHO if you can not teach or promote what you have been gifted with then you have no right being promoted for the sake of a higher title. In the system that I teach and learn, there is a minimum amount of time and quality needed for promotions and when it come to receiving Masters level it then becomes more of a matter of "what have you done" than "what can you do". Time.....typically 20 years with at least 15 years teaching. I am a firm believer of quality control and can only stress the importance of being remembered by the fruit I have/ produc(ed) because that will be all that I have left here when the good LORD takes me away. Kevin M. Janisse NKMAA --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:11:27 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] What is the best shot Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mark writes: > I do not plan to get involved, and am aware of my surrounding to be sure that > I am not put in the position. I plan to be an excellent witness instead of > participant. Hello Mark: Your response, as well as that of Alain and others, are exactly what I mean by "best shot". I can't believe anyone would think that to be the best shot does not include proper speed through consistent training, conservation of ammunition, making the first shot count, proper positioning, awareness, and all the other things that make up what IMHO is "the best shot". It bring me back to the question of "who is the best" by that old wolf Ken McD, who never ceases to make my day with his humor:) In his quest to find out who would prevail in a fight among the various disciplines, he managed to draw fire from all sides, but few answer his question. IMHO, and I base this on a background of countless barroom brawls just like the ones Ken fancies to hear about, the winner always was the one who had the most will to survive. Ofcourse, I would expect that the participant would use all of the above mentioned "tricks of the trade" to give him or her an edge. Even then, the unexpected must never be discounted. I used to "try out" my techniques in bars and anywhere else for that matter. Master Booth even found one of the old Karate Illustrated articles where I fought a boxer at one of my tournaments back in the early seventies. I did not beat the Golden Gloves Champ on points but, after using a technique he was not used to, I did have him on the floor at my mercy at my feet before the first round ended. After that we sort of "sparred" for a while, and he beat the tar out of me winning the match. In the end, I was just glad that by this time I had already seen the light of what is truly important, and I did not break his neck or stomp on him. I consider myself very lucky that I did not kill or seriously maimed someone by trying out my techniques in bars, and my background now serves to help me deter others from making the same mistakes I made. This has made me a much more content person. For more on this school of hard knocks, I suggest some good reading by Alain Burrese. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:22:58 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] 15 rounds Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You missed my point,, the point is that the concensus law is now to sell 10 round mags,, I also have pre-ban mags for pre-ban firearms,, sure you can by them with the mags,, but the makers now sell all new firearms with 10 round mags,, you don't by new ones with high capacity magazines anymore if you are a civilian,, if you actually use a bananna clip, high capacity mag, or drum style mag on your firearm and then have to explain it in court,, well,, good luck, being loaded for bear is great until you have to talk to the bear's lawyer. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:38:50 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Waiting for your dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, I have always been told that if you have to ask then you are not ready for it. I have a friend in Busan who holds a 4th dan and his master is asking him to test for his 5th dan but he refuses. I asked why, and he said the only difference is that he would have to take a chiropractic course for his 5th dan in Yong-In. To him it not important to be promoted to 5th dan but what is important is that he continues to practice the skills he has developed already. Lastly, I have noticed a lot of higher ranking instructors, masters, or grandmasters here in the US that don't possess the same skills as their Korean counterparts. Why? I have always been told that a lot certificates on the wall does not mean much when you have poor skills for your level. Every instructor I have trained with told me this, even my first martial arts instructor whom was a Southern Style Praying Mantis master. ===== Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:16:07 EST To: TNTcombatives@aol.com Subject: [The_Dojang] New May 2002 Training Dates Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, Just a quick note to inform you of new training dates for May 2002. May 17, 2002 Intro 1800-2200 hours @ North Plains PD. $25. May 18, 2002 Basic 1700-2200 hours @ North Plains PD. $50. Make your safety a priority for 2002. Pre-register for both the May 17th & 18th classes, and receive TNT-Intro on the 17th for free! (a $25 savings) And for those of you who have passed Intro and Basic: March 23, 2002 Intermediate 1300-1800 hours @ North Plains PD. $50. April 20, 2002 Advanced 1700-2200 hours @ North Plains PD. $50. Watch your email and department fax machines for continued updates on the TNT 2002 training year, and watch for the online training and officer safety 'TNT technique of the month' coming in April. Visit us online at: http://members.aol.com/tntcombatives/police.html, or call me anytime at 503-789-1356. Take care and be safe. Una Stamus, Mark Gajdostik --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:06:59 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] waiting times for dan degrees Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Many organizations and or dojang have minimum time requirements. Time in the dojang is subjective. Do you attend 3 classes a week or 3 classes a day? What kind of improvement is there in your technique or your understanding of technique? These are the questions you should be asking yourself. Of course the answer to your question depends entirely on you and your teacher. But do not expect to be promoted at the same time as one who attends 3 classes a day if you attend 3 classes a week. So to say "you need x number of years between dan testing" needs a important qualifier. How were those years spent? We all have seen students who repeat the same year over and over (these are the ones who do not practice outside of class) and others who learn something new and then spend time even more time outside of class practicing. Just my opinion... Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 12 From: KenKimrey@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:13:15 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido Training New York City Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi - Does anyone know of any incredible instrustors in New York City for Hapkido? Thank you for your help. --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:08:40 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD and Self defence (for Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net F Pitt wrote: <<<>>> We are not allowed to learn self defence till red belt. We can't learn one steps till green belt (I cheated though hehehehe .... I know 5 one steps). But we are allowed to do forms and sparring. <<<>>> My TSD dojang that I trained at in NJ was like that also. I wish my new school (TKD) was like that. <<<>>> We get to do one steps (at green belt), but to me, that's not self defence. That (one steps) is just for practice for basics, and combos, which is good practice, but still not self defence. Then again, TKD is now a international sport, and REALLY popular in this area, so I guess I have to deal with it. P.S. good luck on your test :o) Laurie yellow belt TKD (5th gup TSD) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest