Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:29:47 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #142 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (Kenneth W. Legendre) 2. Re: For the List (SSHapkido@aol.com) 3. Women, etc. (Cathie O'Neil) 4. Sciatica Problems (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: Slowly in Korean (Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)) 6. In search of a new instructor... (Brian Myers) 7. Ken McD's stories (michael tomlinson) 8. RE: Sword Hyung (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 9. Controversy Over S. Korea's C-List (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 10. Sciatica and forms (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) 11. Sepak Takraw (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 12. Windjammer Cruises and Martial Arts (Ken McDonough) 13. RE:Best Shot, Shooting and training (Dunn, Danny J RASA) 14. Will the real Ken McD please stand up, please stand up (Ken McDonough) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Kenneth W. Legendre" To: The Dojang Digest Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:01:05 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tyranmarla said "I have a question for all the black belts on the list. When you are required to train a fellow student, what makes you lose patience with them the most? Trying to get them to understand the forms? Getting them to think? Trying to get them to concentrate? I really would like to know so that I can be a student who is easier to train. I have asked lots of questions about how to understand the teaching methods of SOME black belts, and I have only been given 1 positive response. I am not thin skinned, I just want to learn how to understand the higher ranks." This is an easy one for me. What frustrates me the most as an instructor is lack of effort. Not all people are created equal. I dont expect a brand new student to look like a black belt, but when any student is just out there waving his/her leg around (TKD instructor) that really bugs me. You should not be responsible for trying to understand your instructors. They are the ones with the knowledge. The instructors have to figure out a way so that everybody that they teach can learn what it is they are trying to teach. Everybody learns in a little different way. My goal as an instructor is to try and figure that out.  Ken Legendre3rd Dan TKD7th Gup HKDinnae@netexpress.net  --__--__-- Message: 2 From: SSHapkido@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:22:03 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: For the List Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Tyranmarla, I guess the main things that make me loose patience while instructing is when people fail to show respect to higher ranked students or instructors; or when they have trained in other styles and they keep saying " at my other school, we did this" or "I believe I could kick you in the head before you take me down with that technique ( when I was trying to be nice to them)." Just remember, if you are respectful and you are making an effort, the instructors should be more than happy to work with you as long as it takes to get the techniques down or at least get you started on the right foot, so to speak, and tell you what to work on. You do need to realize that some black belts are not as equiped to teach as others. Your instructors should also be respectful to you. Of course, we all have our bad days and occasionally get impatient or just downright ornery; but if everyday is a bad day, perhaps that particular black belt needs some adjustment in his/her attitude. If you are having a problem, talk to the black belt involved ( very respectfully ); or if they are not receptive to this , talk with a higher ranked black belt or to the head instructor ( each school usually has a preference as to who you discuss these matters with). They may simply not realize how they are coming across. However, if this attitude is coming down from the head instructor, perhaps you need to reevaluate where you train. These are just some of my thoughts. Good luck. Suzanne --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Cathie O'Neil" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:47:06 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Women, etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net OK, do you think we are taking this way too far now? Think about the content of the previous messages. I think the joke is on everyone now. Cathie _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:23:57 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sciatica Problems Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray writes: > Yes, it appears that I have Sciatica. > > Just back from a medical consultation where I was advised to halt all martial > arts activity until this gets better. Now many would claim after seeing me > in action that what I do would never really pass for martial arts, but it > is still not what I wanted to hear. Bummer... Hello Ray: That IS bad news, but is ain't the end of the world. As you probably guessed by now (after Jackson), I also have Sciatica as a leftover from my back injury. I found that training actually helps me, I just have to be realisitc and a wee bit more careful. Will a second opinion be a problem? Reason I ask is that my first Physician put me on bedrest for nearly two years. I actually had to change Doctors to be allowed to work out. After I did, things began to look up for me. At any rate, I truly wish you the best! Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:18:28 +0100 From: "Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Slowly in Korean Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Can some wonderful person on the DD tell me what the Korean words (the skewed > English spellings...not Hangul, please) for the following: > > Slowly Chon chon hi -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Brian Myers To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:35:34 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] In search of a new instructor... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To all on the list... As many of you may remember from some of my earlier posts (and rantings) I am an ATA / Songahm TKD refugee. I am currently looking to begin serious practice of a new martial art, and prefer to stay in the Korean MA genre. I have been giving serious consideration to Hapkido. It seems that Hapkido would make a "natural extension" to my knowledge and experience in both TKD and Aiki-Jutsu. My question to the board is - suggestions for a good school/club in the Indianapolis / Greenwood Indiana area? I know someone around here must have something, but I only find informational links back to the club in Bloomington at the university. If I have to drive down there I can, but that will seriously limit my ability to attend class as often as I would like. Thanks in advance... Yours in the Martial Spirit, Brian Myers --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:46:10 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ken McD's stories Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dude when you do retire you should start writing some fiction novels,, with your travels,, experiences, and sense of humor I think you would be a hit!!! Dude I'm not joking, you really should think about it!! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:31:52 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sword Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net "......I am interested in these older forms, and since I am a bit far from the dojang I consider my primary, I want to explore these forms for my own personal enjoyment......" >From a biomechanical view the difficulty in revivifying these hyung is that the various postures and techniques were characterized by a title and picture without much information about how one transitions from one move to another. The result is that I have observed at least 4 variations of BON KUK GUEM BUP ---- a Korean Sword classic --- including one on the MUYE ESHIP tapes, one published in a magazine article by Dr. Kimm, one in JAMA and one in an MPEG format on the KUMDO.ORG website. For those who have not run into this, imagine ---say--- four techniques: front stance, jump-spin-kick, rising block and straddle stance. Now consider how many ways a person can shift between and among these four techniques. For me, I believe that it is this ability to transition between techniques which is the actual heart of the hyung. Just knowing the disparate techniques is only a third of the battle. The transitions among the techniques tells a person how to execute with the entire body and perform the specific technique "under fire". So far, the interpretations I have seen of this material are pretty simplistic and could use some revision. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:46:43 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Controversy Over S. Korea's C-List Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net By BARBARA DEMICK, TIMES STAFF WRITER SEOUL -- The list of shame reads like a who's who of South Korean society. The former dean of a prestigious women's university helped recruit Korean women who ended up as sex slaves for Japanese soldiers during World War II. The wartime publisher of Korea's largest newspaper ran editorials urging youths to join the Japanese army. Church leaders rallied congregations to donate gold jewelry for the war effort. Late last month, members of the South Korean National Assembly released a list of 708 prominent people who are said to have collaborated with the ironfisted Japanese occupation of the Korean peninsula between 1910 and 1945. Notwithstanding the passage of more than half a century and the fact that all but one of the people named are dead, the list's publication is stirring up emotions so raw that the events seem like they happened yesterday. The timing of the publication is particularly awkward because in less than three months Japan and South Korea will co-host the World Cup soccer games, their largest joint effort since World War II. And with the presidential election scheduled here in December, accusations that various candidates are related to Japanese collaborators have become the newest form of political mudslinging. One reason the subject is so sensitive in South Korea is that many collaborators, their children and grandchildren became the core of the nation's elite. Unlike France, where more than 10,000 people were executed after the collapse of the Nazi-backed Vichy regime, efforts in this nation to punish collaborators were nipped in the bud. Soon after the peninsula's liberation at the end of the war, tensions flared between the U.S.- and Soviet-administered sectors, leading to the creation of two nations in 1948 and the Korean War from 1950 to 1953. The struggle against communism took precedence over settling old scores, and the U.S.-backed South Korean government retained most of the bureaucrats from the wartime period. "The money of the collaborators was not confiscated, and with this money they and their descendants became the ruling class of the new, liberated Korea," said Han Sang Bum, a law professor at Seoul's Dongguk University who pushed for the release of the list. "People who would have been shot or imprisoned in France became national heroes here." The list includes most of the famous poets, writers, composers and artists of the early 20th century, people who are still revered by South Korean schoolchildren. Beloved poet Mo Yun Suk wrote paeans to the Japanese emperor. Painter Kim Eun Ho, considered the father of modern Korean art, produced propaganda to support the war effort. And late educator Helen Kim, head of Ewha Women's University, called on students to join the Women's Patriot Service Corps, a ruse that led to thousands being forced to become "comfort women," or prostitutes, for Japanese soldiers. The release of the list came on the eve of the March 1 celebration of Independence Movement Day, a major South Korean holiday marking the anniversary of an anti-Japanese uprising in 1919. The World Cup games are to begin May 30. Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi is to visit March 21. However, resentment still festers here over a Japanese history textbook approved last year that South Koreans believe glosses over the brutality of the occupation. Former "comfort women" still demonstrate outside the Japanese Embassy in Seoul, the capital, seeking recompense for suffering. Those who prepared the list of collaborators insist that it has nothing to do with Japan but rather is designed to help South Koreans deal with their past. "I don't think it will negatively influence the relationship with Japan. This is a domestic issue," said Kim Hee Sun, an assemblywoman from the ruling Millennium Democratic Party who spearheaded the release of the list. "This is not to create divisions but for the sake of reconciliation." Cho Moon Ki, 77, a former resistance fighter who has spent most of his life on this issue, said he has given up on efforts to punish the collaborators, almost all of whom are dead anyway. "We are not trying to dig up the tombs of the deceased," Cho said. "This is something we have to do for the next generation so that we can restore our national pride and start out again right and clean." The publication of the list has not been popular in all quarters. Some conservatives grumble that it might be better to leave skeletons in the proverbial closet. "There is a danger that this will be used purely for political purposes and turn into a witch hunt," said Lee Kang Doo, a leader of the conservative opposition Grand National Party. He and others are upset with the procedure used to compile the list. A semi-governmental agency known as the Rehabilitation Assn. prepared a roster of 692 collaborators, but legislators who released the list added 16 names of prominent people who had been omitted because of their contribution to Korean society. Others complain that the association listed only the most prominent collaborators, leaving off civil service workers and soldiers who served the Japanese. Just as U.S. politicians accuse their rivals of sexual peccadilloes, accusations are flying fast and furious that the fathers of various politicians were collaborators. The Confucian sense of family loyalty makes such allegations far more shameful and politically damaging here than in the West. Although neither are on the list of 708, the late fathers of two prospective candidates for the Dec. 19 presidential election face such allegations. Former President Park Chung Hee, whose daughter Geun Hye is likely to run, was a soldier in the Japanese army fighting the Korean resistance. Front-runner Lee Hoi Chang's father was a prosecutor under the Japanese. The issue of collaborators is shrouded in partisan politics, with leftists historically pressing for their prosecution and rightists resisting. After World War II, North Korea vigorously prosecuted collaborators with the Japanese and many fled south to escape. ===== Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:06:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sciatica and forms Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray; I had a friend back in my old dojang I Kansas he was 33 with a real tough case of Sciatica and his doctor suggested lost of swimming. He said that was the only thing that allowed him to continue MA training. He said that if he went two weeks without swimming laps it would flare up. He also got me started doing all of my kicks underwater. That is one really safe way to build strength with resistance without risking injury (especially those knees). Question: In my old TKD dojang we learned the Chon Ji Hyung forms (sp?). The dojang I am at now I have learned the following forms Cu -Mo 1& Cu-Mo 2 at white belt, Pyong-Ahn 1 and Pyong-Ahn 2 at yellow belt, and Pyong- Ahn 3 at green belt. So far that is as far as I've gotten. I will be testing for my purple belt after our tournament this weekend. Having said all this here is my question. What "style" or lineage did this set of forms originate? I hope the spelling didn't confuse anyone :o) Thanks in advance Brian --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:09:54 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sepak Takraw Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net S.H. Wee wrote: > Here is Southeast Asia, we have a similar game that called "Sepak Takraw". > Its basically volley ball using your feet and a little rattan ball. Play the > game two times a week and you will notice significant improvement in your > kickings. Sepak Takraw comes from Thailand, right? I've got the rules at home but I haven't been able to find a supplier for the balls. Does anyone know where to find either the traditional rattan ball that Shinhoe Wee is talking about, or the modern plastic balls? Please let me know! Thanks! Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:03:46 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Windjammer Cruises and Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, guess I started a hornet's nest of good stirrin the pot stuff. I emailed one dude privately and told him to wake up and smell the coffee. But, I decided to take a cruise down in the Carribean soon. Any martial arts stuff down in St Marteen or Bahamas ? Let me know. Will be readin more sensitivity training stuff while sippin on a few Margaritta's. Oh no, did I say alcohol. Sorry Ray, those Tea Totalers and 12 step people are soon gonna be sprayin me with nasty comments. Gotta get out of here while the gettin is good. Big Ken McD... P.S. Martial Arts and Bikinis ? I like that thought. He he. Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:22:46 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE:Best Shot, Shooting and training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just wanted to say that I'm happy to see so many list members include shooting and firearms in their martial arsenal. Many times I get bulging eyes when I talk about the place for firearms in personal defense to other martial artists. By the way, the ban was on the manufacture and/or importation of magizines with a capicity of more than 10 rounds. Pre ban manufactured magizines and firearms can still be legally sold or carried and used. By the way, I think accuracy is critically important and can only be developed, like any other skill with good regular practice. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 14 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:23:40 -0800 (PST) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Will the real Ken McD please stand up, please stand up Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, good points, re: To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:37:52 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Ok kids... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ok kidz... Face it. Ken is, well, Ken. No two ways about it. Yes, I filter out some of his "creativity", but I also let some of it through just to liven things up a bit. But don't take it sooo seriously. I don't think he does. At least I hope not. If he does, then perhaps we should request that Congress make the Air Force keep him in for another 20 years just to wear him down a slight bit more. I mean, don't you all feel safer knowing that he is out there protecting us? :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com> Response: I am really an extremely sensitive guy. I just like to see how people react to words on a screen. And, especially when they never met me, do not know the inner workings of the cesspools of my mind, or have no idea if I am serious or delirious. Makes life interesting. If you pick a few key subjects and build a storyline, well you have an instant response from those who are focused on an issue and believe they have the proper answer, when in fact there are a myriad of answers to any issue. Or, maybe no answer at all. Now, if we just talked about Certificates, and a form, or our own self- promotions continually, well, reminds me of those wrestling matches where the fans yell out "Boring". Don't blame Ray Terry. He is trying to have all forms of ideas presented. But, you will note that I never personally attack any individual. Instead, I let the reader attack me when they latch onto some inane issue and they want to personalize it. Like it is an issue that is part of them and they must now attack the author. And to that end this is why I have served my country for 24 plus years. To bring you the freedoms to be able to write thoughts about any topic you want. Try that in Afganistan under the Taliban regime. Well, "I think I am now gonna go to the couch...", and pour me a nice drink, ,put on some Frank and Dino records, and think of the good old days when a guy was a guy, and a girl was a _____. Cheerio, McD... Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! http://mail.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest