Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:18:46 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #143 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. RE: 15 rounds (Kirk Lawson) 2. McD... (Mary Braud) 3. Re: Sciatica - To Ray and GM Timmermann (Prince Loeffler) 4. RE: Windjammer Cruises and Martial Arts (Morgan James) 5. use of force, crosspost (Ray Terry) 6. (no subject) (Bouloutian, Andy (CAP, GEFA)) 7. Re: Forget the "kiss"-- just go ahead and "tell" (Bruce Sims) 8. Re: Sciatica (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 9. Re: Kata stuff (Bruce Sims) 10. Re: Ken McD (ISA CONSULTATION GROUP) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:45:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net}"), the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] 15 rounds Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "michael tomlinson" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:22:58 +0000 > Subject: [The_Dojang] 15 rounds > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > You missed my point,, the point is that the concensus law is > now to sell 10 > round mags,, I also have pre-ban mags for pre-ban firearms,, > sure you can by > them with the mags,, but the makers now sell all new > firearms with 10 round > mags,, you don't by new ones with high capacity magazines > anymore if you are > a civilian,, if you actually use a bananna clip, high > capacity mag, or drum > style mag on your firearm and then have to explain it in > court,, well,, good luck, Nonsense. It is perfectly legal to use pre-ban magazines in post ban manufactured weapons. It's a non-issue even for illegal use of the firearm itself. If some idiot were to go out and buy a *stolen* black market post ban manufactured gun, put a pre-ban magazine in it, then go rob a store with it, the magazine capacity would *still* be a non-issue. Peace favor your sword --- As of 8:45 on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, I live in a united nation. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:44:54 -0600 From: Mary Braud To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Organization: Federal Express Subject: [The_Dojang] McD... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. McD, I look forward to each and every one of your emails. They all make me smile, and sometimes, a few truths can be uncovered when you brush aside all the funny stuff. All people read things through their OWN filters. And if some of those filters are conditioned to read things a certain way, well.., that's what makes us human. You cannot be responsible or take responsibility as to how someone will interpret something, especially on a bulletin board like this. Ray, I'm glad you don't filter everything of Ken's, because all that TKD, HKD, Aikido, etc stuff can get mighty repetitious at times. Thanks McD for keeping us dames and gents on our toes, and helping us to redefine our sense of humor!! ~Mary > Well, "I think I am now gonna go to the couch...", and pour me a nice > drink, > ,put on some Frank and Dino records, and think of the good old days when a > guy was a guy, and a girl was a _____. > > Cheerio, > > McD... --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:47:46 -0800 (PST) From: Prince Loeffler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sciatica - To Ray and GM Timmermann Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray and Grandmaster Timmermann: I too had this problem about three years ago....I got it from sneezing ! My dad had to drive all the way to my house to help. As my dad tried to propped me to a sitting position the pain was so intense that I passed out from it. By luck my uncle who was an MD was familiar with it that he came to my house and gave me a muscle relaxant and that help a bit. I was bedridden for three days until I took my first step. A week later I went to see a doctor who told me that I MUST CEASE ALL MARTIAL ARTS ACTIVITY. Guess what It made me madder than ever. I told the Doctor ( not my uncle) to go practice medicine some place else. Although for three months I was walking like a 110 year man.. I return teaching 3 weeks later on a cane. For all technique such as kicks, strike or punches that requires hip rotation, I had my assistant show it for me while I do the talking and the telling. I was lucky that one of my student is a Chiropractor and one of Aikido instructor was a licence in Shiatsu. Both assisted me to my road to recovery. In my search to ease the pain I came upon a book by Art Bronstein titled " Healing Back pain the Natural Way" Guess what Ray ! This book has become my Salvation and my bible...I have not have any recurring pain since then. I gave a copy of the book to my boss who was in a back brace for 3 month...after following the book for another three month the back braces came off and he has not use them since for the last two years !!! The company decided to make this book as distribution to our employees with back problem and it has help them ever since. Yours in the Art Prince Loeffler Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:44:13 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Windjammer Cruises and Martial Arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken said "I emailed one dude privately and told him to wake up and smell the coffee".. Oh come on Ken, the terms you REALLY used were muuuuuuuuuch better.... HA. J. Morgan --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:17:23 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] use of force, crosspost Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A good post from Tuhon McGrath, from the Eskrima list. Ray Forwarded message: From: Bill McG Subject: [Eskrima] Martial Arts & Legal Use of Force Here is a copy of an article on the legal use of force from the Summer 2000 issue of my organization's newsletter. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath For more information visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com 12 SKILLS by Tuhon Bill McGrath 1. Knowing The Rules of Engagement (When to fight - legally, morally and tactically ) 2. Conditioning (cardio-vascular and muscular) 3. Footwork & body positioning (Mobility in your firing platform) 4. Flow (The ability to fluidity change from one technique to another) 5. Timing (The ability to do the right thing at the right time) 6. Striking (Delivering force) 7. Blocking & deflecting (Defending against force) 8. Clinching (Including trapping) 9. Grappling (Both standing and on the ground) 10. Strategy (Your battle plan) 11. Courage (The ability to overcome fear in order to achieve your goal) 12. Aggressiveness (Your willingness to deliver punishment) To recap a bit from the last newsletter: If I had plenty of time to train a student I would train them in skills 1 through 12 using all of the Pekiti-Tirsia system. If a student had to rush his training because he was soon going into combat (like a solider going into boot camp) I would choose just a few techniques and train him on as many principles as time allowed starting at 12 and working back towards 1. For the next several issues of the newsletter I will go over these skills one by one. We will start with skill # 1 - Knowing The Rules of Engagement. In this article I will cover the several areas these rules fall under, legal, financial, moral and tactical. LEGAL: Laws very from state to state, but a few paragraphs from the Penal Law of the State of New York should give you a general idea of the legal thinking on the issue (obviously you will need to consult with an experienced local attorney for the particulars in your state). Some pertinent parts of the law which should interest us are: Justification; General. Article 35 of the N.Y.State Penal Law states, in part: "...conduct which would otherwise constitute an offense is justified and not criminal when:...such conduct is necessary as an emergency measure to avoid an imminent public or private injury which is about to occur by reason of a situation occasioned or developed through no fault of the actor, and which is of such gravity that, according to ordinary standards of intelligence and morality, the desirability and urgency of avoiding such injury clearly outweigh the desirability of avoiding the injury sought to be prevented by the statute defining the offense in issue. A person may...use physical force upon another person when and to the extent he reasonably believes such to be necessary to defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of unlawful physical force by another person, unless: (a) The latter's conduct was provoked by the actor himself with the intent to cause physical injury to another person; or (b) The actor was the initial aggressor; except that in such case his use of physical force is justified if he has withdrawn from the encounter and effectively communicated such withdrawal to such other person but the latter persists in continuing the incident by the use or threatened imminent use of unlawful physical force..." Deadly Physical Force (DPF): Definition: "physical force which, under the circumstances in which it was used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury". Physical injury is defined as: impairment of physical condition or substantial pain". Serious physical injury is defined as "physical injury which crates a substantial risk of death, or which causes death or serious and protracted disfigurement, protracted impairment of heath or protracted loss or impairment of the function of any bodily organ." Deadly Weapon vs. Dangerous Instrument: In New York State law the "Deadly Weapons" definition includes firearms and a number of weapons such as gravity knives, blackjacks, daggers, etc, which the law classifies as illegal for civilians to carry in public. "Dangerous instrument" is defined as "any instrument, article or substance , including a vehicle, which, under the circumstances in which it was used, attempted to be used, or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or other serious physical injury. Therefore a switchblade in the pocket of a person is an illegal deadly weapon in New York while a can of oven spray in your grocery bag is not. However should a mugger use a can of oven spray to blind his victim, he can be charged with the possession of a dangerous instrument in addition to the robbery and assault charges (much like a burglar being charged with "possession of burglar's tools" if he uses a rock to break a window and gain entry). Be warned, among the NY state case annotations one finds: "there are no circumstances when justification can be a defense to the crime of criminal possession of a weapon...Justification is not a defense to illegal possession of a weapon". All else being equal, using a plain looking pocketknife that is of legal size in a self defense situation will look much less suspicious to the police and district attorney 's office than using a model that looks like a "combat knife" in the exact same circumstances. Article 35 goes on to state: "A person may not use deadly physical force upon another person unless: (a) He reasonably believes that such other person is using or is about to use deadly physical force (against himself or a third party). Even in such cases the actor may not use deadly physical force if he knows that he can, with complete safety as to himself and others, avoid the necessity of so doing by retreating: except that he is under no duty to retreat if he is: (i) In his dwelling and not the initial aggressor: (ii) A police or peace officer (acting in his official capacity) (b) He reasonably believes that such other person is committing or is about to commit a kidnapping, forcible rape, forcible sodomy or robbery: or (c) He reasonably believes that such other person is about to commit a burglary...(of an occupied dwelling) This is an area that varies widely from state to state. In some states you can stop any burglary with DPF and in others you are only justified in using DPF in an occupied dwelling at night (a daytime burglar is seeking to avoid the home's occupants. A nighttime burglar expects to encounter occupants, and is prepared for that). (Note: The "need to retreat" doctrine is one of the areas in self-defense law that varies widely from state to state). FINANCIAL: I tell my students this; "If someone attempts to assault you and you defend yourself; even when no charges are filed against you by the police, the other person can still file a lawsuit against you saying that you were really the one who started the fight. Now let's say you won the lawsuit and not one dime is awarded in the other guy's favor. Unless you have a very good insurance policy (such as an umbrella policy ) you will still have to put out something in the neighborhood of $7,000 to $10,000 to hire a lawyer to defend yourself from the lawsuit (the other guys pays nothing, his lawyer gets paid only if he wins). MORAL: I will be turning 40 this year. When I look back on all the stupid things I did when I was in my teens and twenties I think it was only my mother's prayers that kept me out of prison or a casket. Speaking to other guys my age I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way. Young men have an instinctive desire once they hit a certain age to test their courage and strength. This can get them into trouble if they don't have a safe outlet for their aggression or no good male role model at home (and in my case, even when they do). As for adults doing stupid things, remember one does not have to take an I.Q. test to father children. The drunk coming at you in a bar might have small children at home who love and depend on him. If it's a choice between your kids growing up without a father and his, well your responsibility is to your own kids first, just make damn sure you have no other choice in what you do. Remember, whatever you end up doing to an attacker, you still want to be able to sleep at night afterwards. You'll sleep better knowing you did only what you had to do and no more. TACTICAL: When dealing with a street confrontation what is best legally, financially and morally also happens to be what is best tactically. The law states that you should do only as much damage to an aggressor as necessary to stop the attack or allow your escape. That is the best path to follow tactically as well. One of the principles of combat is that the second opponent you don't see is the one most likely to hurt you. In Pekiti-Tirsia we always assume that we are fighting more than one opponent, therefore we can't spend much time on opponent #1. Think of your ability to deliver techniques as ammunition in the magazine of a firearm. If you are ambushed and empty your gun into the first attacker you see, you will be in bad shape when attackers 2, 3 and 4 appear. Time is also a facture. Spend too much time pummeling bad guy # 1 and you might turn around to find bad guy # 2 standing behind you with your blood already on his knife and a wet feeling running down your back. Essentially you are under two tactical constraints on the street; Time (where are the other bad guys and how quickly can they get to you?) and Personal Endurance & Power (how much "ammo" is in your magazine and what is the caliber?). Combat firearms instructors have taught me three principles to use in a firefight. 1. When close to cover, "get to cover, then shoot". 2. When far from cover, "shoot little, move much" (towards cover). 3. And when cornered without cover, "shoot yourself a hole, then charge through it" (towards cover). Change "cover" to "escape route" and you have some good principles for hand, stick or knife combat as well. SUMMARY: In a nutshell, you can improve your odds of keeping yourself legally, financially, morally and tactically safe if you don't ask yourself "Can I do this?", but rather "Must I do this?" Do only what you must and no more. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bouloutian, Andy (CAP, GEFA)" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:01:36 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For me I need to see motivation and effort. When I see a student not put forth decent effort, that just drives me crazy. I am lucky however my students are pretty motivated. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:57:59 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Forget the "kiss"-- just go ahead and "tell" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....One reason the subject is so sensitive in South Korea is that many collaborators, their children and grandchildren became the core of the nation's elite......" I can't believe how stupid I have been. Sure, now that I have it spelled out in front of me it makes perfect sense. No wonder nobody wants to talk about these issues, and no wonder there is so little material about this stuff. After reading that review of UNDER THE BLACK UMBRELLA I had this itchy kind of feeling in the back of my brain like a horsefly trapped in auto with you as you buzz down the road. In fact, I would take it a step farther. Ever notice how people talk in terms of "neo-confucianism" or "yanbang" families--- but rarely are these folks ever identified individually. Its like our own Vietnam War which went on for 12 years. Ever been able to find anyone who would admit to voting for it? I wonder how many Koreans benfitted from selling out their countrymen. It must have been wonderfully easy to blame everything on the Japanese Occupation (IE."Oh, we don't have any history/records/documents about that. The Japanese destroyed it all.") Too bad the Koreans are prisoners of their own culture. I am sure they would be way too respectful of the dead to print a list of the folks on that list. Heres one time when I wish they DID act a bit more American and put that info out there for everyone to see and know ala NATIONAL INQUIRER. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:42:34 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Sciatica Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/12/2002 9:22:50 PM Pacific Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Yes, it appears that I have Sciatica. > > Just back from a medical consultation where I was advised to halt all > martial arts activity until this gets better. I also have occasional sciatica, but it really hasn't hampered me much due to a great chiropractor. He is a HKD 4th dan, so understands exactly what I'm telling him when I describe what movements (kicks or whatever) seem to be currently aggravating it. His adjustments make an incredible difference in being able to continue training. He will tell me what kicks or movements to avoid for what period of time. (I have never had to stop training completely, but your case may be different). I also have learned (the hard way) to see him as soon as I have sciatica symptoms instead of waiting until the pain is worse. I suggest looking for a chiropractor (by personal referral, not the phone book). If you can find someone who also has a background in MA, so much the better. Good luck! Sharon --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 11:59:22 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Kata stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Brian: ".....Pyong-Ahn 1 and Pyong-Ahn 2 at yellow belt, and Pyong- Ahn 3 at green belt......" These hyung are three of the five Heinan ( AKA: "Pinan" in Okinawa) kata transmitted to Japan with OS Funakoshi, Gichin and his "SHOTOKAN" style of Karate. The kata were originally organized by OS Itosu (one of Funakoshis' Instructors) who is said to have organized these in order to make instruction of MA in the Okinawan school system easier and more organized along the lines of academic learning. The source of these five kata is thought by most folks to be either a little known kata identified as "CHANNON" or the better known kata KUSHANKU which, in turn, is thought to be based on the material brought to Okinawan by a Chinese emissary at the beginning of the Ching Dyn (1644-1910). As far as their use in TKD/TSD, it must be reported that significant numbers of Korean nationals and Korean ex-pats were educated in Shotokan and its other derivations (IE SHITO-ryu) and extolled the virtues of these kata as they amalgamated what they had learned with various Taek Kyon techniques to produce what we know today as TKD. Despite reports that these kata were practiced in Shaolin Temple and were carried to Korea by monks (or exported from Korea to China and Japan by monks) the fact is that there is no evidence to support these Kata or that upon which they are based as anything but part and parcel of the Okinawan MA/MT. This may not set well with some folks so if anyone wants five good resources to corroborate this material I can pass those along. Two are Bishops' OKINAWAN KARATE (ISBN:08048-32056) by TUTTLE Pub., 1999 and Nagamines' ESSENCE OF OKINAWAN KARATE (ISBN:0804821108) by TUTTLE Pub.,. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 14:12:51 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ken McD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know Ken's going to hate this and will think I'm smoozing, but I have to tell the truth about ol' Ken. I met Ken back in 2000 while traveling through his city. He invited me in and we sat and drank "coffee" while we conversed. He showed me his latest "classic" car in the garage and took me to his training area in the basement. He had a lot of work to do to get it shipshape, but I'm sure he finished that. Ken is a very nice gentleman with a charming family and lives in a very nice home in a very nice suburb. Get the point here? Ken is very nice, face to face. I'm sure that if we had a camera on the Pentagon problems of 9/11, we would have seen Ken being a hero. Sorry Ken. george petrotta http://hapkido.4dw.com/ _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest