Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 06:49:16 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #153 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #151 - 9 msgs (Bert Edens) 2. Grumble grumble grumble... Sorry, y'all... (Bert Edens) 3. Re: Loose Patience (Lasich, Mark D.) 4. Un-yong Kim out as head of Korea Olympic Committee (Ray Terry) 5. Re: Re: Bulgogi (Ray Terry) 6. Re: More rice (Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)) 7. RE: Lose patience (Anne Skjold) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:24:28 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #151 - 9 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Hello, > I have a comment about Tyranmaria's dilemma that does not seem to have >been addressed. Everyone wants to blame the student for not learning >learning, it is easier to blame the student than admitting it is your own >fault. The student isn't "respectful", but they are still learning how <> >have attended a university you know exactly what I mean). I can honestly say >that I have never seen a course on teaching methods required for a black >belt. The issues of respect, attitude, so on and so forth of the student >have been covered, but what about the ability, attitude and respect shown by <> >Respectfully, >Richard Zaruba Greetings, Mr. Zaruba... I agree with your comments about how it's easy to blame the student when part of the fault can/does rest with the instructor. And no, I haven't seen specific courses on how a black belt should behave, but you would hope that any senior instructor worth their salt would make sure all the proper attitudes and such are instilled in their students before they get to black belt. Sure you can do the punches and kicks, but being a black belt is more about who you are than what you can do. As many people have said, there's no such thing as a bad student, just a bad instructor. While I think there are students who won't have the patience or willingness to "stick it out", for those that are attempting to do so, the onus of developing them into quality black belts (who they are, not just the belt) rests with the instructor, in coordination with the parents, if the student is a minor. As my instructor has posted on our walls before: There are two kinds of black belts: the one you wear and the one you are. Which one are you? Not sure of the origin of it, but I certainly like it... :) Thanks for bringing up a good point, Mr Zaruba! <> - Bert Edens 1st Degree Recommended, Level 2 Springdale, Arkansas --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 07:25:50 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Bert Edens Subject: [The_Dojang] Grumble grumble grumble... Sorry, y'all... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sorry y'all... I forgot to change the subject on that last post... :-/ <> - Bert --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Lasich, Mark D." To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:47:00 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Loose Patience Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I agree with Mr. Zaruba, there are different ways to TEACH. New students should not have all the responsibility to understand their instructor. To be effective, the instructor should be aware that not everyone learns the same way! In the ATA, ALL instructors MUST go through instructor certification courses. In these courses, a variety of teachning concepts are taught to the instructors. The bigest of these are the class management skills, on how to plan for and conduct classes....As part of my instructor certification, I did my research thesis on NLP - Neuro Linguistic Programming. In my research, I became aware of the three different ways the people receive information: being visually, verbally, and kinestetically (feeling). Every one of us has a particular mode that we are most comfortable operating in. Some people learn better by seeing, some by hearing it described, and others by feeling for themselves. Like any good presenter, you MUST be able to teach in all three modes to be most effective for the entire class. One-on-one, you must be aware enough to identify how that individual learns, then use their primary mode to teach them! For example, an instructor can describe the technique, show the technique, then break it down and let the students try (feel) the technique for themselves. This hits all three modes, and will be most effective in getting the point across to everyone in class! On the other hand, if the student can identify the instructor's primary mode, the student can ask questions that would be the most meaningful to the instructor: "Sa-bom nim, can you SHOW me, EXPLAIN to me, HELP me POSITION my leg..........." - Not that the student should have to do this, but it can help. In practice a student can say the name of each technique before doing it, practice in front of a mirror to see what they are doing, then doing the techniques, fast, slow, broken down, etc....to feel the technique. This captures all three modes for yourself just during practice! Yes, there's a lot to keep in mind, but nobody every said that being an instructor was easy, or was suited for every black belt. Tyranmarla, I hope this helps somewhat. In the spirit, Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com ------------------ Mark Lasich "Life is full of doors that don't open when you knock, equally spaced amid those that open when you don't want them to." -Roger Zelazny --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 7:03:43 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Un-yong Kim out as head of Korea Olympic Committee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: Korea Judo President Named Interim Head of KOC SEOUL (IJF) - Korea Judo Association President, Jung-haeng Kim (58) was announced as the Interim-President of the Korea Olympic Committee (KOC) following the resignation of Korea's top Olympic official and longtime President of the KOC, IOC Member and President of the World Taekwondo Federation, Dr. Un-yong Kim. Confirming his previous announcement on February 28th, during the Korea Olympic Committee Congress, Dr. Un-yong Kim confirmed that he was resigning the top spot effective immediately at the Executive Board meeting of the Korea Sports Council and Korea Olympic Committee on the 12th of March 2002. The Executive Board had previously passed a motion to request Dr. Un-yong Kim to complete his current term through 2005, however Dr. Kim elected to officially end his presidency. Dr. Kim further announced that KOC Vice President and President of the Korea Judo Association would serve as the Interim-President of the KOC until a new President was elected at an extraordinary Congress. The resignation of Dr. Un-yong Kim from the presidency of the KOC immediately set into action a search for a new head to the top sports post in Korea. The most widely mentioned candidates currently are IJF President and IOC Member, Yong Sung Park; Jae-sung Choi, Representative (Millennium Democratic Party); Seung-eun Kim, Hanwha Group Chairman; Sum-tak Um, Korea Ssirum Organization Chairman; and Sang-ha Park, KOC Vice President. In particular, Yong Sung Park has stated on numerous occasions that, "I have absolutely no intention of becoming KOC President," however it is well recognized that he is the most popular personality to take over the presidency and there is a strong possibility that he may agree to take the post with further encouragement from his closest advisors. In addition, Korea Judo Association President and KOC Vice President, Jung-haeng Kim is increasingly believed to be a strong candidate for the permanent post of President given his successful organization of the Korea Judo Association and his position as Chancellor of Yong-in University. --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Bulgogi To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 7:08:38 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Yuck ! How do you say " More rice, please." ? You don't like Bulgogi? I love it.!. I 'found' bulgogi burgers on my last trip to Korea. I always liked bulgogi, but mixing that flavor with my favorite food group (hamburgers) was just heaven. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:38:39 +0100 From: "Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: More rice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Yuck ! How do you say " More rice, please." ? Mani pap yuseyo. -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:41:35 -0600 From: Anne Skjold To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Lose patience Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sir, being most of the things you pointed out seemed to evole from the response I gave I would like to address them as they pertaine to me. 1. I have every respect for my students and show great repect towrds them and my instructors, I try to instill this by words, attitude and demonstration to my students, sime just don't seem to think they need to follow suit and it is annoying especially after they have been there a while. 2. As far as the "I Know" aspect: I describe, Demonsrate and repeat as many times as nessesary, because I am aware that each student learns differently and at a different pace. We repeat drills and I try to show correction not only by demonstration but pointing out how that individual student needs to change the technique. #. i do things the above way because that is how I was taught and remember what it was like beginning to learn. I do recognize the effort put forth and if the student is trying I encourage. I try to stay on top of my material by praticing my self and learning to be a better instructor, I take the advice of others, etc. but aparently according to the way you responded to my comments to tyranmaria's questions ( which she asked to be candid) I am not doing good enough. I apologize if I took this the wrong way, but it hurt, in essence being told I was not trying to be the best I can for my students. Ms. Anne 1st Dan, TKD >Hello, > > I have a comment about Tyranmaria's dilemma that does not seem to have >been addressed. Everyone wants to blame the student for not learning >learning, it is easier to blame the student than admitting it is your own >fault. The student isn't "respectful", but they are still learning how >respect is shown in the dojang, they always say "I know", and they did >listen and are trying, just they are so overwhelmed with detailed >corrections they can't figure out where to start fixing things. I know a >number of gifted black belts that just can't or don't know how to teach. It >is much like being at a university, just because a professor has Ph.D. >behind her/his name doesn't mean she/he can or knows how to teach (if you >have attended a university you know exactly what I mean). I can honestly say >that I have never seen a course on teaching methods required for a black >belt. The issues of respect, attitude, so on and so forth of the student >have been covered, but what about the ability, attitude and respect shown by >a black belt or instructor. I have seem black belts with so much ego it >seems to have effected the blood supply to their brain. They usually can't >teach and get upset with a student because the student doesn't pick it up >right away and they feel it makes "them" look bad. Some instructor only >quickly visually demonstrate a skill, forgetting to break it down and then >say go and can't understand why no one understands, or they describe it in >intricate detail but never demonstrate it, or they they have a student try >it once and jump to something else and get upset when the student doesn't >remember. All three basic learning tyles should be used break a skill down >into small parts and demonstrate it verbally explaining how to do each part >and then walk the students through practicing it themselves slowly cleaning >it up so as not to overwhelm the student but correct and polish the skill. >When a student is honestly putting forth an effort to learn but is not >learning, it is the fault of the "black belt or instructor", not the >"student". How many black belts or instructors on this list have taken the >time to learn how to teach different types of students, not just said this >is how I was taught and this is how I teach? I don't mean just read a book >and then go back to the same way you were teaching before, but actually put >forth an effort to apply the ideas and concepts. Teaching is just as much of >a skill and ability as practicing the martial arts itself. Failure to >recognize this fact is all to common in to many fields and the martial arts >is no different. Teaching is not necessarily easy or natural, but it is >rewarding to those who learn how. Sometimes we should look at ourselves and >ask where the fault lies within us instead of taking the easy way out and >blaming the student. Now off my soap box and back to training. > >Respectfully, >Richard Zaruba "I am not an angry girl. But it seems I've got everyone fooled. Every time I say something they find hard to hear, they chalk it up to my anger and never to their own fear." Ani DiFranco --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest