Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 02:04:54 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #159 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Sparring (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 2. Re: Practice oversight (Bruce Sims) 3. Re: Re: Practice oversight (Ray Terry) 4. Re: teaching changes (ISA CONSULTATION GROUP) 5. Re:Re: Point Sparring (harrismm) 6. aiki and hapki (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 7. approach to KMA (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 8. Sin Moo Hapkido's curriculum (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 9. Pain (Rudy Timmerman) 10. south korean history (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:05:32 EST From: Chereecharmello@aol.com To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net F Pitt wrote: "I can always depend on my roundhouse kick to the head to land a point, but otherwise, my sparring pretty much sucks..." My instructor once said, after noting my discontent with sparring drills, that "a good fighter keeps it simple." That applies to both "real" fighting as well as point-style sparring. You don't need fancy jump/spinning/blind-folded/set-a-flame techniques to win. You just need to master your BASICS. Take your round kick, for example. You seem confident that it will work and it more than likely will. Perhaps your instructor is not allowing more time for sparring because he is using the time to evaluate your technique, and his purpose is not actually to give you more sparring experience. If you trust your instructor, then I wouldn't question his methods just yet. Most good instructor have a planned method of teaching different elements of the MA. Try visualtzation. Imagine you are in a position to defend then strike. Work out combinations of movements, say block, front snap-kick, reverse punch. You will be surprised how effective practicing combinations of techniques will aid you while sparring... Again, good luck. -Cheree --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:26:40 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Practice oversight Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian: "...Schools in the U.S. currently grant the MS degree. The good news is the doctorate was recently approved as the terminal degree in this field. By this Fall a few schools would be approved to offer this degree. So, to answer your question, there is no real difference between OMD, DOM, D.Ac. L.Ac. any other title with respect to their clinical skills......" I re-read your post a couple of times and what I am reading you to say is that there are no schools here in the States (though some are in the formative stages), that there is no state oversight or licensure (beyond maybe responding to complaints about charlatans) and that a person right now could essentially assume any of the letters you cited in your post without too much concern for accountability for what he is supposed to know. Are these pretty accurate conclusions? Of course, you know what I am going to ask next..... Who is keeping an eye on these practices and how do they do it? In the absence of standard credentialling or licensure is there some sort of peer-review, association review or uniform practice protocols? Is there some sort of standard ethical code that everyone adheres too (even if just a code similar to the Hippocratic Oath that doctors take)? I have this impression that someone could take a mail order course and buy a kit of incidentals and be off-and-running. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: Practice oversight To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 12:02:32 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I re-read your post a couple of times and what I am reading you to say is > that there are no schools here in the States (though some are in the > formative stages), that there is no state oversight or licensure ... Yes, I believe that there is state licensure. If you check the websites for some of the schools they quote what % of their grads pass the state test and receive a license to practice. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:14:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: teaching changes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: ".....How has your approach to teaching KMA or MA changed over the years? What do you do differently now from years previous? What experience, or ahh-haa, brought about that change?......" I am one of those guys that our friend Bruce says about: Bruce: "are someone who organized an art of his own out of spare parts." But here is my story: I started in traditional Judo back in '63 and from then to about '72-'74, I trained with every yellow, green, brown and black belt I came into contact with. I didn't care what art they practiced, I just wanted to learn the MA. In early '70s I had my taste of KMA with an american TKD guy. He was good at what he did, and he was strict, because his Instructor (Kim, Soo of Houston fame) was strict on him. So when I started teaching for him, I was super strict and that continued until the early '80s. But to go back a bit, in '77 I met my first Korean. He was working construction at a papermill I worked at. He came into my school and introduced himself and we hit it off real well for about 12 months. He told me his style was Hapkido, and I felt in awe, because i had seen "Billy Jack". Well he taught me stuff that made my hair stand up on end, after I got up off the floor. I'm glad I learned to fall in Judo. But he left and I haven't been able to find him since. In the early '80s I began to lose the strict teaching ways and become friends with my students, until '88. I hooked up with a Korean *th Dan from Oklahoma City and he told me to be strict and to maintain an aloofness with my students. "have them go through the chain-of-command to get to you" he said. So I did as told and before you know it my second-in-command sits down and tells me he wants to open a school a couple of miles away. I said ok, bye. He took 3/4 of my student body with him. While I was maintaining a distance from my students, he was forming a clique and stole them right out from under my nose. From then on I lost my traditional values and went eclectic. I enjoy being able to teach and be friends with those I teach. Sorry for the length, george petrotta http://hapkido.4dw.com/ http://leftbehind2001.tripod.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 14:22:58 -0600 From: harrismm To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re:Re: Point Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cheree, Thanks for the response about point sparring. I will attempt the string of words on the search engine. We sparred last night and I left so frustrated that I'm debating on getting into the competition. For one, when we spar, it is only like 3 minutes long with frequent interruptions. We learn all these techniques, but we don't seem to learn much on how to actually use them in sparring (especially since we rarely spar). I practice, practice, practice forms and techniques each day, then when I get to spar (for say a whole 2-3 min round), I'm clueless on how to actually put my learning together to make points. I can always depend on my roundhouse kick to the head to land a point, but otherwise, my sparring pretty much sucks (i think) because we just don't get taught how to. I'm thinking of breaking down and buying a sparring video from Master He Il Cho since I've found his forms books/videos quite useful. I may ask a friend from the dojang to practice sparring on some weekend perhaps. Does anyone get a great deal of teaching on how to actually spar? I feel confident in being able to defend myself in an actual fighting situation, but it's just not the same as actually sparring for points since there are guidelines/rules to follow. I'm frustrated with this whole sparring thing! Cheree, At my school we have a dedicated sparring class one night a week that lasts one hour. You may want to talk to some of the other students to see if they are interested also. The more people are interested, the more likely the instructors might think about adding a sparring class. If only 1 or 2 people want to do it, depending on the instructor, they may not be interested. Mark Harris Blue First World Martial Arts Academy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 15:22:49 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] aiki and hapki Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Back in the stone age, I was teaching (on campus at Texas A&M) hapkido and taekwondo through the Self Defense Club as co-chief instructor (we inherited this club from Park Jung-soo who was also a great yudo player) and the Taekwondo Club as chief instructor (I inherited this from Cho, Gee-bong). During this time, I was doing my post-grad work and I met a professor who was a BB in daito-ryu who wanted to learn both arts I taught. We exchanged arts and became good friends. This gave me the opportunity to study daito-ryu for many years formally. We even had him teaching one class a week at the SD Club. I was a low ranking BB, a 2nd or 3rd dan in both TKD and HKD then, so I was at that point in training that one is still looking at new techniques and starting to understand how they work, but I knew then my detail in motion needed help. Interestingly enough the kicks in daito-ryu were simple. For example, the height of the front kick was parallel to the ground. The stances were high, and having a KMA background it took time to adjust to the high stances. I was interested in daito-ryu specifically to study the technique of the parent art of hapkido. The techniques were, for the most part, the same, but the approach was different. In hapkido I currently teach that the theory of basic motion consists of a balance break, a decreasing radius circle and the lowering of the center. The balance break in daito-ryu did not consist of a ki hand or an extended ki finger. It did consist of a strong (strength) balance break or by applying a soft strike as a balance break. The stances were high, but they were important and stressed. It was often the triangulated stance found in the Japanese sword arts. The approach to the technique was different in that two methods were applied. Moving in front of the person or moving around the person (technique was always practiced from a fighting or triangulated stance). This concept was also applied at the end of the technique. Both large circle and small circle movement was found depending on the technique. If it was a static attack then small circle was applied, if it was a dynamic attack then large circles were applied. It was about this time that I was concerned with the detail in my hapkido technique - as I should have been at that rank. Being introduces to another method of motion helped me understand what I needed to work on. In fact, we only worked on one technique per class (from various attacks), but we applied different approaches and conclusions to the technique (still the mister potato head theory found in hapkido). Many of the techniques are the same as hapkido in essence, but the method was very different. As we are the sum of our parts - it has influenced my motion, but what helped me the most at that time was the understanding of detail, specifically doing a technique without a partner and being tentative to the placement of all body parts. The historical understanding of technique was of great benefit as a young teacher in the KMA. Another common denominator was the theory of 30 degree motion found in hapkido. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 16:05:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] approach to KMA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<".....How has your approach to teaching KMA or MA changed over the years?>> I work smarter not harder. <> Take anti-inflammatories. <> Pain before breakfast, during breakfast and a double order of pain after breakfast. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul PS. Bruce, you cleaned up your story from the one you told me :) --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 13:06:18 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Sin Moo Hapkido's curriculum Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can anyone tell me if GM Ji teaches or taught healing techniques or bone setting techniques? I understand some HKD schools teach such material to their students. The IHF teaches such material around the 4th dan level. ===== Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 18:00:43 -0500 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pain Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > My best guess is that I am about to get a first-hand experience with this in > a couple of weeks, yes? Sorry I missed Erie, PA. I suspect that Kevin > explained what happend. Looking forward to Minnesota. > No hard feelings about the wise-crack, right? Right?? Hello Bruce: I think this is just a rumor. JR and I are really nice cavemen and NEVER hurt anyone, they hurt themselves by not complying fast enough:) I look forward to seing you in MN, and never worry about fun -- I love it:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 20:18:50 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] south korean history Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A good reference site: http://www.countryreports.org/history/korshist.htm Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest