Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 06:56:54 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #167 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Gender Bender :0) (Chereecharmello@aol.com) 2. Re: Master Ko (Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)) 3. Kukkiwon regulation for dan promotion? (Jens Schaefer) 4. ACL Reconstruction (Dena M) 5. RE: Training practices and attitudes (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 6. RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #165 - 7 msgs (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 7. Re: ACL Reconstruction (Ray Terry) 8. Re: RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #165 - 7 msgs (Ray Terry) 9. ACL - Surgery Q & A (Andrew Gassiot) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:30:58 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gender Bender :0) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << As a woman, I must take extra precautions not to make myself vulnerable. >> Holy COW! I thought you were a guy...Your comments about fighting made me think you were a MAN...now I realize you are a tough LADY...sorry! My comment wasn't meant to be combative or rude though... <> I just (politely) yelled at one of the new female students for kihapping (um, is that a word?) like she was singing a lullaby... I don't usually say anything to new women who giggle...I understand it is often a defense mechanism and you are 100 correct, many people don't take it seriously. I also feel this is a bi-product of gender stereotyping...Women often giggle because they feel as if they are supposed to be soft, cute, flirtatious and subservient...YUCK! (I particularly enjoy listening to women speak about their "Tae-Bo Self-defense Training" ) I even instruct the children to kihap as if a stranger was bothering them and they want Mom/Dad to hear them a block away (my ear drums are recovering nicely, by the way) <> Um, are we related? Look Lurker MK...they do exist...you know, other women who proudly showoff bruises...I bet if we got together we would manage to get into a heap of trouble :o) By the way...a truly great reality check (and workout) is to have a gentleman, who out-weights you a bit, straddle you and fight to keep a hold of your arms while you lie on your back. Women don't have the same upper-body mechanical advantage, so even using a larger woman for this exercise is not sufficient. Man that's difficult. Difficult enough to bring me to tears even when I know it's a controlled environment. Turns me into a snarling, in-need-of-an-Exorcism-like creature. There are all sorts of ways to combat that situation, but they don't always work. It's spirit that counts...I find that flailing around like a fish-out-of-water works well...it leaves tremendous bruises and hurts like hell, but it works...I have small hips, so the hip roll doesn't always work for me. Eye gouging, hair pulling and biting do, though. I guess some "cat fight" methods are effective. Being a girl isn't ALL fluff... I wonder if people are ever brave enough to ask their instructors about "what-if" scenarios... In the event that a big jerk wants to steal my possessions...I would let them. If he were interested in my car...he can take it. If he wants the money in my pocket...take it and leave me alone. But, if it's me he "wants..." I am fighting to the last breath I have... -Tomboy # 2 --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:24:06 +0100 From: "Klaas Barends (opurk.nl)" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Master Ko Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Klaas:) How was the HKD seminar in Holland? So far so good, as you may have noticed on the http://www.hapkido.nl/ website. Our Korean guests are now getting ready for their flight back home. For those who are not informed on this issue, master Ko Back Yong (9th dan, student of doju Myong Jae Nam) stayed with us in the Netherlands for about three weeks. Three weeks of hard wark and many practice and of course the official opening of the Dutch HKD headquarters on march 23rd. For the past three weeks I've been sleeping in the dojang (like we do when we are in Korea), getting up at six for our morning practice, eating breakfast, do some work (the new building needed some paint of course), practice again, teaching the kids, practice again, going to bed (the dojang floor actually) around 0:30 and getting up at 6:00 again. You can imagine I had a great time. Hot news: Master Ko is thinking about writing a book on hankido (multilanguage, English and Korean). Ali: got any updates on the LA seminar in June? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:49:54 +0100 From: Jens Schaefer To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon regulation for dan promotion? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi! I have a small argument with a fellow martial artist about dan testing in the different martial arts and how hard it is to get a black belt in the different MAs. She thinks that I am kinda whimp since my dan-test was, in her eyes, too easy and needed too little preperation. My argument is that I was tested in Kukkiwon accordance - it's just that the German judo-testers are perfektionists beyond any japanese common sense (German pre-dans have to do first aid courses, instructor's courses, *several* mandatory seminars ...). In order to prove my point - and in order to prove it to myself - I would like to take a look at the official regulation for dan promotion. What does a korean have to do in order to get a bb? Second question: What do you think about what I had to do in order to get my dan? The test program was: - 4 Taeguk poomse, testers coice (8.,7.,6.,3.) - 1 Taeguk poomse, my choice (1.) - Kyokpa, 3-Step combination, hand (sonnal, sonnaldung, dungjumok) (made it) - Kyokpa, 3-Step combination, jumping kicks, my choice (Chose dymyo-yop-chagi, dymyo-pandae-dollyo-chagi and dymyo-pakkat-naeryo-chagi) (made it) - Kyokpa, sonnal through 4 layers of wood, (didn't made it - none of us three did) - Ilbon Kyorugi - Kyorugi (2 rounds) - Hosinsul (5 different situations) - Theory (korean vocabulary knowledge) I made it with a "B" - my poomes were miserable (I was pretty nervous) but the rest went very well. I trained for roughly 6 1/2 years to get were I am today. I was tested by my master, Chung Gee Hun, which is a certified 8th dan. Thanks in advance for any comments. -- Humbly yours Jens Schaefer "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person." --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 03:14:18 -0800 (PST) From: Dena M To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] ACL Reconstruction Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Lim, This is my first post to this list, so I hope I did it right. I particially tore my ACL many years ago but did not know it, they xrayed my knee and said nothing was wrong with it. Then about 3 years ago after joining Taekwon-Do I tore it all the way. They again xrayed and did not see anything, it continued to give out on me. I went to a different Dr. and had ACL reconstruction about 9 months ago. If you have been having the trouble that I had with your knee being very unstable and never knowing when it would give out on you, I would advise having the surgery. The Doctors did not want to do the surgery on me at first because I am a woman over 40, for some reason that seemed to be such a no no. I kept telling them that I did not sit around all the time and that 40 was not dead. The finally agreed do to the surgery. I had the petalla tendon graph, he was going to try the ham string surgery but said that my ham strings were too small. The first couple of days were pretty ruff, but I was walking without cruches about the 5th day. (not very well and real slow, but still walking). They started PT on the second day and I went for 3 days a week for about 2 months and then 2 days a week for 2 more months. (I did a lot on my own and worked my knee everyday) I went back to class at about 2 months but did not do a lot, did what I could and just stood on the side when they were doing things that I could not do. Turning on the effected knee is a no no for a long time, it is too easy to tear it again. I did get a brace but don't wear it any more, and my Doctor said that I should not need one. The Doctor released me about 3 months ago and told me to see what I can do. I still don't feel that I am able to jump yet. They say it takes about a year for the graph to take all the way and to heal. It is hard to get over the memory of my knee giving out and the extreme pain that goes with it. Hopefully in a few more months I will be able to jump. The most trouble I have had is with where they cut the petalla tendon and took bone from my knee cap. Both places are still very tender and bending that knee with my weight on it is still pretty painful. Even with this still bothering me, the knee is much better after the surgery. It is very stable now and I no longer have to worry about it giving out on me. Gets stiff and hurts when it rains, but you know, that is going to happen anytime you have surgery. (they also had to trim out the cartlidge because I had torn it so bad from my knee giving out so many times). This past weekend I tested for my 1st Dan, the only thing I could not do was the flying kicks, which my instructor understood. If you have anymore questions about the surgery, feel free to email me. Dena Martin, 1st Dan p.s. please disregard any spelling errors, it is 5:00 a.m. Message: 5 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:45:22 +0800 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Stan Lim Subject: [The_Dojang] ACL reconstruction surgery? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello folks, I just found out yesterday that my ACL is torn. Apparently, it occurred nearly 4 years ago during my last TKD tournament. I am now considering surgery and I'd like to get some input from the members of this list. - What sort of procedure did you have? - How much did it cost? (I know it can vary a lot by location) - How well did the recovery go? - How happy are you with the procedure? - Any other comments or words of advise? Kamsahamnida! Stan Lim Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 07:36:28 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Training practices and attitudes Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Randall: "...Years ago, I visited an Aikido school in Baton Rouge three times while I was there on business. Their joint locks were so loose that I thought I was being caressed. Their rationale was, that in a real fight, you would be so pumped up that the techniques would work! The instructor that night paired up with my wife and got peeved because she kept throwing him down. She gave me a look that said "what am I supposed to do?" ....." Yes, and I am ever challenged on how, exactly to address this. Speaking from a personal standpoint I tend to use a lot of authority in my techniques. Its not a matter of being a badass, but rather the way I have been taught, and the way I prefer to train. Early on in my Hapkido career I tried to attend Aikido classes but was routinely criticized for using "too much muscle". In time it became readily apparent to me that "Ki" was what instructors used and that was OK. "Muscle" was what students used and that was not OK. Over time my technique has developed a "pleasant firmness" which I can vary depending upon who I work with. In the matter of being "pumped up" during a fight, well, I tend to concur. I have even used this rationale with beginning students to help get them through the introductory material and on to the more no-nonsense stuff without killing each other. :-) Again, on a personal note, while I would expect an adrenalin rush during confrontive situations I don't know that I would depend on it to compensate for weak or compromised practice , especially cummulatively over time. Overall, I tend to subscribe to the belief that one generally fights as one has trained. I think anyone who has witnessed a trained Karate-ka or TKD practitioner pull his punches in a fight will understand my position on this. (Please, no flames. This is not an indictment of an art, only a comment on training practices. :-) ) Finally, let me take this opportunity to return to an old complaint of mine regarding upper ranking belts. It has been my growing experience that some of the best partners at seminars are gueppies. They are still in a place in their MA career where they are willing to negotiate and communicate about what they need and want in their training. They are still in a place where they are willing to push the edges of the envelop a bit. Most of the time I don't even approach people third dan and above as I have long ago gotten tired of hearing about how they can't do this technique or that because of this ache or that sprain. Its also not worth my time to begin examining the dynamics of a techniqure and have them either get bored with me, or get distracted into a conversation with someone else on the floor. (If anyone else has thoughts or feelings on this I wouldn't mind discussing this at length as I have seen this with regularity at just about every get together I have been to and its a true pain in the butt!!) I think the only thing that beats this is approaching individuals on the edge of the mat as a potential training partner only to be advised that they are not invested in getting out on the mat. Will somebody please tell me what these folks come to seminars for? Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:49:41 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #165 - 7 msgs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere wrote: > Ray: when I think of traditional arts, I think of arts that have passed the > test of time - such as hapkido or taekwondo. When I think of modern arts I > think of arts such as hanmudo or kuksulwon. Hapkido and Taekwondo are traditional arts? That sounds REALLY strange to me. They've been around less than a hundred years after all. The founder of Taekwon-Do is still alive, as is the guy who named Hapkido. One of the arts I study is Hoki-ryu iaido, and its lineage legitimately goes back over 300 years. That would be a traditional art, I think. However, I don't think that necessarily makes it better than hapkido and taekwondo. It means something that people have done it a long time, but as an American, I always believe in change and improvement over time as well. I keep iaido as my traditional art (the one where I shut up and do what I'm told) and I keep my eclectic stuff for learning self-defense. Yours in the arts, Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] ACL Reconstruction To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 7:16:06 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > This is my first post to this list, so I hope I did it right. You done good... :) BTW, we have a large number of new subscribers. For whatever reason our numbers are growing rather quickly. New folks, welcome! Please feel free to join the discussion. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] RE: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #165 - 7 msgs To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 7:16:40 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Please remember to update the subject line. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Andrew Gassiot" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 08:42:58 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] ACL - Surgery Q & A Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I just found out yesterday that my ACL is torn. Apparently, it occurred > nearly 4 years ago during my last TKD tournament. I am now considering > surgery and I'd like to get some input from the members of this list. > > - What sort of procedure did you have? Bone - PT - Bone Autograft (my body parts), meniscus trim, femur debriedment > - How much did it cost? (I know it can vary a lot by location) All said and done about 22K, that was out patient with overnight stay. > - How well did the recovery go? Quite well, do your exercises and you will do fine. I actually travelled on business and was walking in NYC 14 days post-op, no cane, no crutches. The biggest problem was getting up after being on a 4 hour flight. > - How happy are you with the procedure? Really happy, I can walk without fear of my knee going out and falling on my face. I really hated that part. > - Any other comments or words of advise? If it's only a partial tear, you may, stress may, be able to rehab it. If it's stretched or completetly torn, it's been a long time since your injury you may want to study up on the efficacy of surgery after waiting that long. Elway had both his ACLs' completly torn in high school and still played pro ball, that was something more to do with the way his legs were built in the first place though. Grafts from your hamstrings are very popular now and the recovery is the fastest with allografts (dead guy parts). Do a lookup for Bob's knee board and it's a great resource for knee problems, I'm assuming it's still our there. Find a sergeon that specializes in knees, or knees and shoulders, be weary of one that does everything or has a bunch of accident 'victims', they tend to be working for attourneys and perform questionable work. If you have a family doc, or know a doc, nurse, physical therapist, ask them to recommend two or three OS's for you to visit. The key thing hear is to ask them who would they want to perform the work if it was them. Sometimes you can tell a lot by just sitting in the waiting room. I really felt at home when I walked into the OS office with a bunch of high school and college level athletes, these guys also did a lot of work on the local pro teams. > Kamsahamnida! > Stan Lim Oh kah gay sah mah day DREW --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest