Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:08:19 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #168 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Doctors (JSaportajr@aol.com) 2. Re: Seminars (David N. Beck) 3. muscle memory (michael tomlinson) 4. Advice for a new person... (Darin Keener) 5. Grappling rules (Randall Sexton) 6. Gender Bender :0) (jmchie@attbi.com) 7. Re: Respect Issues?? (Bruce Sims) 8. RE: LA seminar in June (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 9. Re: Kukkiwon regulation for dan promotion? (Ray Terry) 10. Art Degradation (Randall Sexton) 11. Gender Bender (d.mchenry) 12. MOVING (Gordon, Robert E Mr IACH) 13. Hapkido...and Aikido Thoughts (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 14. Kyung-hee International Taekwondo Championship (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:59:33 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Doctors Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 3/26/2002 5:31:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: We used to say in medical school, often when panicked after a test, "What do they call a guy who got all C's in medical school?" Answer - Doctor Incidentally, re the recent discussion of acupuncture. There are a number of programs that offer to train MD's in acupuncture, such as from UCLA. They are usually a lot of home study with a couple of 2 week on site training in California. My friend who is a traditional acupuncturist bristles at the this. He feels this training is completely inadequate, and will produce lots of MDs who think they know acupuncture but who will do more harm than good. I have toyed with the idea of taking the course just out of interest and not to practice it clinically. But, it is quite expensive and time consuming. Also not in the bottom half, Jose' > have seen it noted several times to remember that 50% of all doctors finish > in the bottom half of their class. Might I point out that these 50 % are > still among the top 2 % in the world when you consider the education level > they have attained. So give that bottom half a break. > > Dr. S > > PS. Not in the bottom half. --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:21:07 -0600 (CST) From: "David N. Beck" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Seminars Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce said: >Will somebody please tell me what these folks come >to seminars for? Why, for that all-important certificate of participation and getting their picture taken with the instructor, of course! David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS SDVS-2, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 15:55:19 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] muscle memory Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: Most of the time I don't even approach people third dan and above as I have long ago gotten tired of hearing about how they can't do this technique or that because of this ache or that sprain. Its also not worth my time to begin examining the dynamics of a techniqure and have them either get bored with me, or get distracted into a conversation with someone else on the floor.>> Bruce I think you need to check out who you are working out with? No offense to anyone on here but if you are 3rd dan or above and not going almost full speed and almost at 95 percent pain compliance then I don't really consider what you are doing as positive. The one thing I love about working out with the likes of Master Nabors black belts, Master Whalens black belts and some of my guys is that they are to the point of being able to turn the throttle up on their speed and techniques so that you approach full power, full speed.. anything less at this level is ridiculous. I mean what are you doing if you aren't working out like this? I am not saying this is a dangerous way to work out,, it is safe when everyone is competent and has built up enough muscle memory in their body to be able to apply the techniques fast and hard,, I mean isn't that what all this is really about,, definately not the reverse.. Again no offense to my Aikido brothers but this is why I have a problem practicing that art,, I totally believe in Ki energy but I don't "assume" it will be there magically when I need it,, but I know that by practicing very hard and very fast that my muscle memory developed thru long hours of going close to the edge "will" be there when I need it. Everything on top of that is gravy. I like the book "Samurai Akijujutsu" by Toshishiro Obata, who is a descendent of Gozo Shioda,, if you read the Epilogue in that book he talks about how Aikidoists have been lulled into being too soft in their practice and that in "old" Aikido strength was not only used but was looked upon as being absolutely essential at times,, I agree with him 100%,, you don't develop Ki thru "easy" practice,, it is developed on the mental and physical forge that is called hardcore training,, nothing less will do. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Darin Keener" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:54:42 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Advice for a new person... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net You asked for new people to post, you got it... First, a bit of introduction...I'm 27 years old, and I'll be beginning my first TKD class as a member of a school next Monday. I'm thrilled, since I've wanted to do this since I was a kid, but never had the chance until now. I've been doing a lot of reading and observing, and there are a couple of things on which I could use some advice... 1. I keep reading over and over how weak TKD is in punching and other hand blocks/strikes. I think I confirmed this by watching sparring at a couple of schools which basically consisted of two people kicking one another until a point was declared, and the only blocking that was taking place was when the two happened to try a kick at the same time. Do basic TKD blocks have a place in sparring, or is it hard to translate? Also, can a TKD practitioner *make* their hand techniques stronger by practice and study, or is it just an inherent weakness of the art that would have to be "enriched" by techniques from other arts? 2. As a beginner, are there any books/video resources that would be useful for me to have for a reference or otherwise? I've been looking at some of the things on turtlepress.com, but I could use some advice. Thanks in advance! D. Darin J. Keener Nyghtewynd@earthlink.net --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:05:17 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Grappling rules Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The attendant gave Mr. Sexton the rubber scissors and he went snip, snip... "I have read over your post again and again. Always with a smile. Kat from Houston" Kat, I was just trying to be funny! Obviously I'm a failure in that arena also. Please don't read any of my stuff over more than once as it's a waste of your time. Cheers. Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: jmchie@attbi.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Gender Bender :0) Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 16:33:13 +0000 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net We have a slightly older woman in our school who has her black belt in both TKD and Hapkido, in that chronological order. She also teaches self defense at a local battered womens' shelter. She is a really neat person. One Monday a couple months ago we did a lot of block and counters, including forearm striking blocks to the bicep area (pls forgive my lack of Korean or technical terminology, I am pretty new and this is my first attempted contribution to the list). Sometimes of course these leave bruises, and can hurt a good bit if done properly! I was paired up with this particular woman for the duration of the day. So that Wednesday when we came in, she came up to me and said "I want you to know you bruised my arm Monday." I started apologizing when she interrupts me in a startlingly good hans-and-frans imitation . . . "It was an itty bitty little bruise." She also held up her fingers pinched together to let me know exactly how small the bruise was :) I know she was just giving me a hard time, but also I never see her get so testy as when she thinks one of the men is taking it too easy on her, and obviously I had been guilty of that. Being of a low belt (green, soon to test) I always tend to exercise a bit more caution than ordinary because I know my control is not as good as it will be after I have been doing this for a lot longer than I have up to now. I also note that at about 6'2", 215-220lbs, I am a preferred partner for some women on occasion because they want practice with their techniques on someone of my size. I guess I don't blame them, but I do get my fair share of lumps that way :) Anyway those be my two cents. Jim http://www.horizonmartialarts-wellness.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:32:28 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Respect Issues?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Jens: "....I have a small argument with a fellow martial artist about dan testing in the different martial arts and how hard it is to get a black belt in the different MAs. She thinks that I am kinda whimp since my dan-test was, in her eyes, too easy and needed too little preperation. My argument is that I was tested in Kukkiwon accordance - it's just that the German judo-testers are perfektionists beyond any japanese common sense (German pre-dans have to do first aid courses, instructor's courses, *several* mandatory seminars ...)....." I think this is one of those things that comes with the MA. Each teacher wants to make their art more and more sophisticated. I beleive that there is a point of diminishing returns, however. >From all that I can tell, traditional KMA mindset is that these activities are a life-long endeavor in much the same way as Baseball in the US and Japan. People are exposed to it when they are young, take some classes, and maybe dabble around with it as they can older. There are competitions for the fanatics and certainly there are schools and classes that take all sorts of approaches and attitudes. Its OK to get your BB early and there is no rhymne or reason to a lot of it 'cuz noone takes it seriously except in terms of ones' standing in the community. I like to think of it as the Korean equivalent of what we in America call "bragging rights". On the other hand we Westerners consider the KMA an activity with a start, a middle and an end that goes on for a finite period of time and then we move on to something else. Status is based on how fast somebody can say they have navigated the course and come out the other end with some high rank or certification. We can pretty much play games with this because nobody honestly expects to have to use this stuff in our day and age and if we do--- well-- it won't be like it was on the mat and we all know it. >From where I am standing I guess I would have to know how you got to be a BB and are still so concerned about what other people think of you. I am assuming that you trained to you particular level for your own satisfaction and not to garner accolades from others, right? Or is half the fun of putting on your Black Belt that of impressing folks and it stings not to automatically get unconditional respect from everyone who sees your belt, especially someone of the opposite sex? :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 09:28:34 -0800 (PST) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: LA seminar in June Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Will I'm still waiting for the final word from Master Myong Young Gun. He in Korea now, so as soon as I hear something, I'll pass along the information. Hopefully, within the next week or so. ===== Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards® http://movies.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kukkiwon regulation for dan promotion? To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 10:47:03 PST Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > - Kyokpa, sonnal through 4 layers of wood, (didn't made it - none of us > three did) Were you required to pass all sections to pass the test? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:10:16 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Art Degradation Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: 1.) Art degradation: There is never enough time to learn the whole system. Perhaps this is because the teacher is niggardly in disseminating the information. perhaps it is because the student is impatient to enjoy a position of accomplishment or recognition. The result is that the student may only really learn a significant part before leaving to do his own thing. In turn his student only stays long enough to learn a significant portion and then HIS student stays only long enough--- so steadily the art declines in effectiveness and efficiency because the entire corpus no long exists to provide the unity among disparate techniques that produces the desired effect. Should the "entire corpus" be composed of so many techniques then? Consider also, that in some arts, teachers taught the technique differently to students with dissimilar body types. A 250 pound student would be taught one way, a 150 pounder another way. Then everyone argues over who was taught the "correct way." Should an art consist of fewer techniques so that one gets in many more repetitions in a practice year versus a lot of different techniques? Should an art also consist of techniques, taught at the beginning to young folks, that can also be practiced when one reaches 90 years of age? For example, in a kicking defense, would an old man be able to lift his leg (after catching a kick) over the attacker's legs in order to drive him down? Why not just make a simple movement with the trapping hands; that's all that's really required to off balance a person. Hsing-I, for example is an art that is relatively simple and very effective, yet one can spend a lifetime comprehending the movements. Master West once made a comment about "doing it for the movement." When I first came to Texas to study acupuncture, I was amazed at how complex Traditional Chinese Medicine was. Some of my first classes were in Zen Shiatsu. My teacher told me that shiatsu was very simple, yet I would spend my life trying to understand it's subtleties. I immediately switched from TCM to shiatsu as I don't have too many years left on earth! Master West was also right as I now find that I enjoy breaking down the simple movements (Hapkido & shiatsu) and trying to understand them. I've also heard an instructor say "this technique is very complex and not useful on the street, but if you can do it, you can do a simpler movement. It will also teach you useful concepts of movement." Should we teach lots of techniques or more concepts? If one of the goals in martial arts is the attainment of "no form" does one get there quicker with fewer or more techniques? Don't flame me on the word "quicker" as I'm in no hurry! If an art has fewer techniques could more time then be spent on developing the person mentally, spiritually, etc.? I think we all agree that it's the person and not necessarily the art. Even in bodywork, you can tell the minute the person lays their hands on you if you are going to have a great session or lie there waiting for time to pass so you can get off the table. Oh, let me go stare into a candle! Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:26:50 -0600 From: "d.mchenry" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Gender Bender Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Tomboy #2 :-) From: Chereecharmello@aol.com <> This reminded me of a situation with my wife once. After a 'women's self-defense' class we attended together, she was still a little frustraited and coming up with some of those "what if" situations that were not covered in the class. The one she was interested in is the one in which you describe, the woman on her back with the man sitting/straddled on top holding her arms down. She wondered how to get out of that? So we tried it. She would strugle for a while and poop out. She just couldn't get me off - and everytime it seemed like she was very close - she gave out/up again. She just thought there was no way... So I tickled her. Damn she went wild to get me to stop - and she didn't quit or poop out until she got me off. That's what I was trying to get her to do in the first place - just not stop or give up. (and I was trying hard to control her) You do have to fight like a wild cat, giving it your all, trying everything you can and not stop. It was very effective on me. Take care, Mac ________________________________________________________________ Sent via the EV1 webmail system at mail.ev1.net --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Gordon, Robert E Mr IACH" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:08:20 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] MOVING Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello list, Long time lurker here. I was wondering if any one knew of good MA training schools around Wurzburg, Germany , I'm moving there for 3-5 years. Thanks, Robert E. Gordon Irwin Army Hospital Ft. Riley, KS 785-239-7213 DSN 856-7213 --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 14:01:26 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido...and Aikido Thoughts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To add on Mr. Sexton's thoughts, the one thing I noticed in Aikido is that all the attacks are so choreographed! Although I never studied the art, my baby brother is a 2nd dan in it and when he was showing me how they attacked I had to just stare at him and shake my head. This was not done in my diato-ryu studies. The one thing I do remember that you will see in my technique from daito-ryu is the extension of ki after the throw, etc. is completed. This is based on the premise that the technique is the same if you have a partner or practice alone. These days I must shake my head when a hapkido student tells me they can't practice at home without a partner. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 12:43:48 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Kyung-hee International Taekwondo Championship Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From the USTU... Forwarded message: TO: All Interested Athletes and School Owners FROM: United States Taekwondo National Events Office Mr. Bruce C.K.W. Harris Director of National Events RE: Kyung-hee International Taekwondo Championship This letter is a Special Anouncement of an international competition that provides an excellent opportunity for you or your students to gain more tournament experience prior to the USTU National Championships in May 2002. The details and specifics are as follows: Location: Kyunghee, Korea Dates: Depart April 20,2002 Return April 27, 2002 Airfare: Group Fare approximately $750.00 Round-trip Depends on Departure City Entry Fee: $ 50.00 US Application Deadline: April 10, 2002 Room and Board: Provided Free of Charge by Organizing Committee Ages: 8 years old and greater For more information, please call either: Mr. Bruce Harris 719.578.4632 Mr. Ki Hong Kim 847.480.9224 Once again, this is an excellent opportunity for your students to get some international competition experience prior to the US National Championships in Detroit, MI. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest