Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 20:19:04 -0800 (PST) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #171 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. What is tradition? (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. On-Line USTU Registration (Tkdtiger@aol.com) 3. Re: ChosonDo stuff (Bruce Sims) 4. RE: Hapkido aftermath (Kirk Lawson) 5. Advice for a new person (weak punching in TKD) (Dave Weller) 6. Re: HoShinSul?? (Bruce Sims) 7. RE: Hapkido...and Aikido Th (Kirk Lawson) 8. RE: Japanese Aikido Federat (Kirk Lawson) 9. Re: Miller demo/seminar (David N. Beck) 10. Translation please (ISA CONSULTATION GROUP) 11. Japanese Aikido Federation ? (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 12. Self-defense for TKD (Steve Kincade) 13. Where is "here?" (Chereecharmello@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:17:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] What is tradition? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere writes: > Tradition, does not mean it is > 300 years old, because of the Japanese occupation, that did not happen. > Nevertheless, I was taught that tradition is honor, dignity and sacrifice Actually, t'aekkyeon and ssireum survived the Japanese occupation, so they would qualify in terms of age. Honor, dignity and sacrifice? Well, I like one of those! Sacrifice is always involved in learning something new, so I have no problem with that. But honor and dignity are not among my favorite virtues. Honor seems to have led to too many duels and disputes in the past; I prefer peace over honor I think. And dignity just gets in the way. If one is not willing to take a chance and fall flat on your face every so often, how can one improve? Merriam-Webster defines tradition as: 1 : an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) 2 : the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction 3 : cultural continuity in social attitudes, customs, and institutions 4 : characteristic manner, method, or style All of these seem related though they carry different implications. An inherited art is one that probably will continue to change, grow, and improve with time. An established art is just one whose general parameters are well-known but whose specific practices may vary by time and locality. And a customary art is one that relates to #3 and #4, and is perhaps the worst type of tradition, IMO. It means that people do things because they don't know any other way of doing it, and if they use start using as tradition as an excuse for resisting change, their art is not going to last. A variety of images come to me here, including the bending willow branch or the way water changes its path when it hits a stone in the stream. The Dao de jing. Fiddler on the Roof. :) etc. Still falling on my face (and getting thrown on it!), Dakin burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:25:09 EST From: Tkdtiger@aol.com To: Subject: [The_Dojang] On-Line USTU Registration Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If you haven't seen it yet, we do have on-ine registration on the USTU website. Links are on the What's New and Membership pages. You can register your club or yourself in minutes. saves on stamps and snailmail --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 11:49:32 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ChosonDo stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian: "....I hope I have answered your questions. Beyond that please feel free to join us the First (1st) World Korean Martial Arts Symposium at the O'Hare Hilton on the weekend of May 25 & 26....." Thanks a lot for the information and your patience. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:31:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hapkido aftermath Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:10:47 EST > From: Chereecharmello@aol.com > To: > Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido aftermath > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > How on earth do you aid your body in recovering from > activities such as breakfalls? Hot showers, Dit Da Jow (a chinese linement), Tiger Balm, Aspracreme, and lots of rest and recovery. > > I am no stranger to falling. We practice on a traditional > wooden floor, which > I have learned to love and respect, but falling on it is a > real(fill in > a long, nasty string of foul language.) People new to breakfalling/controled falling should not be learning how to fall on hard surfaces. Invest in mats to avoid injury. Only after correct falling techniques have been learned and internalized should one consider practicing falls and throws on any hard surface. > Although not traditionally TSD, our > instructor contends that, if we use sweeps in TSD, Hmmm... I've heard that Kee (the governing board, really) has now added throws and sweeps to TSD. It's either real new or (and?) not strongly stresses since the TSD (SBD MDK) Dojang I was in last week had only padded carpet, no mats (though they were excited that they'd just ordered some nifty new jigsaw mats). > then we also should know how to fall. Good advice regardless of the art. Accidental falls happen all the time to say nothing of sparing in open tournaments where sweeps and throws may be allowed without even going into SD against a person who's training and capabilities are unknown. 'Sides, I remember horsing around with some buds in a parking lot, launching a roundhouse and my plant foot "grip" slip away as I slid, ball baering style along gravel. Wish I'd known something more then a simple "backfall" back then. > He felt the need to review (repeatedly)last > night. I am currently immobile. Sorry to hear that. Insist on mats until you are properly trained. No one takes a newbie and puts him in front of a Makiwara until he *knows* how to punch. > my only alternative was to bite. So I did. Only his butt was > closest to m > y face...so I, um, did a secret ancient Korean technique called the > "Bum-chew." > (the technique has yet to fail me :0 ) This is occasionally taught in FMA & Silat. I've not seen it taught elsewhere though. Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson --- As of 8:45 on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, I live in a united nation. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:30:30 -0600 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Dave Weller Subject: [The_Dojang] Advice for a new person (weak punching in TKD) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Keener asked about hand techniques in TKD: >From: "Darin Keener" >1. I keep reading over and over how weak TKD is in punching and other hand >blocks/strikes. I think I confirmed this by watching sparring at a couple >of schools which basically consisted of two people kicking one another until >a point was declared, and the only blocking that was taking place was when >the two happened to try a kick at the same time. Do basic TKD blocks have a >place in sparring, or is it hard to translate? Also, can a TKD practitioner >*make* their hand techniques stronger by practice and study, or is it just >an inherent weakness of the art that would have to be "enriched" by >techniques from other arts? This depends entirely on your instructor. It seems the more "sport" or tournament oriented instructors tend to teach in a "hands down" fashion. The traditionalists will smack you in the nose if you let your guard down. Nothing in TKD precludes the use of hands, just look into the various Poomse and you will see hand techniques galore. If you are not getting instructed in the effective use of your hands you might seek a little outside instruction if you are happy with the other aspects of your training. I would not call this an "inherent weakness" in the ART of TKD. I might, however, be tempted to call it a weakness in the SPORT of TKD. G'luck, and stick with it, the benefits of training in ANY martial art are enormous. As a Golden Geezer my motto is "hit 'em high, kick 'em low." dave weller student wtf tkd "Practice a thousand hours and you learn self discipline. Practice ten thousand hours and you learn about yourself." Myamoto Musashi --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 12:01:43 -0600 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: HoShinSul?? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Laurie: "......This is for the TKD'ers out there. I've been looking for Honsinsul (sp?), self defence techniques for TKD. It doesn't matter what assn or fed it's from. If anyone as info on videos, books, websites, ect. please post or email me....." I would sincerely like to help you in your search. I am afraid that you will probably need to give me a little more information as the terms that you are using are actually pretty broad. When you speak of "self-defense" are you speaking of practical applications for yourself or TKD/TSD practitioners in general? I know you said it doesn't matter what organization but there can be a pretty wide difference between techniques depending on whose group you examine. I would think that you would want techniques whose biomechanics come closest to the way you use your body in a typical class, yes? Is the information going to be used for a presentation or testing? Will you be using an interactive partner, and does that partner know how to breakfall? Are you more interested in techniques akin to one-step sparring with heavy emphasis on strikes and kicks, or joint-locks and submissions or escapes and evasions? Please take the next question without offense, but how old are you? Some techniques can be very simple and direct and other techniques require quite a bit of preparation and practice to use. Some teachers prefer to keep material for younger pratitioners simple, and save the more sophisticated material for older students. Senior students may not want some of the more athletic options so age can be a factor in answering your question. I'd like to make some suggestions but I think I need a little more information about where you are coming from. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:15:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hapkido...and Aikido Th Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" > To: > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 19:11:36 -0500 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido...and Aikido Thoughts > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Out of curiosity, I called my brother to ask him about his political > organization affiliation with hapkido as Kirk made a good > point. He said > that he trains with a Unites Stated Aikido Federation > instructor/school and > that he trains at the USAF seminars (headed by a Master > Yamada) regularly > and that he trains yearly at the hombu dojo in Japan when his > company sends > him there. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul > They are affiliated with the Aikikai style. http://www.usaikifed.com/ Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson --- As of 8:45 on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, I live in a united nation. --__--__-- Message: 8 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 14:17:00 -0500 From: Kirk Lawson Organization: Heapy Engineering To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net ("THE$DOJA@SMTP {the_dojang@martialartsresource.net}") Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Japanese Aikido Federat Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > From: Ray Terry > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 20:37:22 PST > Subject: [The_Dojang] Japanese Aikido Federation ? > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > Speaking of Aikido vs. Hapkido... I wonder... does Aikido have any > chubby 1st Dans that claim to be a 7th Dan, as well as being > the sole US representative of the Japanese Aikido Federation? As with most other arts, there are any number of people who are self promoted "masters" who have "founded their own style." I know of at least one guy in the Dayton, OH area who took his Shodan and did just that. All hail Master so-n-so. Peace favor your sword, Kirk Lawson --- As of 8:45 on Tuesday, September 11, 2001, I live in a united nation. --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 13:36:02 -0600 (CST) From: "David N. Beck" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Miller demo/seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Todd Miller wrote: >I just wanted to let the DD members know that we will be hosting a >demonstration of traditional swordsmanship here on Sat. March 30th, from >10:00 AM - 12:00. All traditional swordsmen and women are welcome to >join us. I will also be teaching a seminar from 1:00 - 3:00 on >Beginner/Advanced principles of Jungki/Original Hapkido. > >My best to all and I hope to see those that are able to join us. > >Todd Miller >Korea Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Assc. Todd, I'll gladly join you in spirit, but how can any of us get those all-important certificates of participation and/or pictures with you if you don't let us know where 'here' is? :) David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS SDVS-2, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "ISA CONSULTATION GROUP" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:23:52 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Translation please Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi, I'm asling for someone who is knowledgeable in Korean Hangul to do me a favor and translate the following: "Way of the Hurricane" You can contact me off DD at gpetrotta@sc.rr.com Thanks for your time, George Petrotta http://leftbehind2001.tripod.com/index.html _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:55:43 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Japanese Aikido Federation ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Ok, Ray I will bite.... http://www.aikidocincy.com/picts/yamada_2001/source/yamada_smokes.html this was on the mats and during a outdoor seminar, or so I am told. I am also told it is a very old picture. --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Steve Kincade" To: Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 15:14:04 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Self-defense for TKD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Laurei asked: " I've been looking for Honsinsul (sp?), self defence techniques for TKD. It doesn't matter what assn or fed it's from. If anyone as info on videos, books, websites, ect. please post or email me." Laurei, most would agree that it's much better to train directly under the guidance of a skilled instructor, and let the books and tapes serve as a reference. Does you instructor have much experience in these type techniques? But, to anser your question: Dr. He-young Kimm has a book called "Tae Kwon Do" that was written to provide TKD'ers with self- defense techniques. The techniques are taken from the Han Mu Do rank requirements through fifth degree black belt and are presented in a logical order. The book is hardcover, 488 pages, and the cost is $69 plus shipping from his headquarter's school in Baton rouge, LA. The phone number is 225-924-2837. Best of luck, Steve Kincade skincade@hanmudojang.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Chereecharmello@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:10:08 EST To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Where is "here?" Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << I just wanted to let the DD members know that we will be hosting a demonstration of traditional swordsmanship here on Sat. March 30th >> Where is "here?" --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest