From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #187 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rayreq@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 02:10:10 -0800 (PST) Status: RO Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Toilets (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Yellow pages (David N. Beck) 3. Re: Re: ITF (Tom Kennelly) 4. Treating students like customers (J. R. West) 5. Re: New school advice (Michael Forman) 6. Student Recruitment (Randall Sexton) 7. ITF picture (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 13:14:33 PST Subject: [The_Dojang] Toilets Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > the monks, which gives the temple the air of an old homeplace. Also on the > grounds is a wooden traditional style toilet that fits in well with the > surroundings. A replica of the toilet was featured in a TV ad. Maybe the women at West's Hapkido would like one of these traditional wooden toilets in the lady's restroom.?. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 15:01:33 -0600 (CST) From: "David N. Beck" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Yellow pages Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'd like to add that it's very important that you get final approval of your ad put into the contract with the YP provider...on the first YP add I ever placed they misspelled BOTH Hapkido AND Taekwondo. :( David N. Beck, WATT Lead Engineer Internet: David.Beck@alcatel.com Phone: 972-519-3103 Address: MS SDVS-2, 1000 Coit Road, Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 17:09:32 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net With his great following what does General Choi have to say? Has he made any statements on this issue? His opinion should carry considerable weight in the manner. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Martin" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:51 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Master Choi wasn't unelected. A special congress meeting of the ITF was called in Jan. of this year. At that time the congress voted to overturn the results of the election held last summer in Italy. In Italy, it was decided that Master Choi would fill out the remaining 4 years of the 6 year term that his father was elected to. In Vienna it was decided that this wasn't the best course of action. Master Choi's side believes that the Vienna congress was illegal. However, they have not actually attacked it in court (as yet). ITF headquarters believes that everything they have done is legal. So far nobody has gone to court to proved anything one way or the other. Master Choi was expelled from the ITF because he tried to, as you say, hijack the federation. It will be interesting to see how this shakes out. For myself, I believe that the actions at the Vienna congress were legal, and without going into detail, justified. I continue to support the ITF and General Choi as do the USTF and GM Sereff. Robert Martin IV Dan ITF/USTF > > So, Master Choi the younger, who was (in theory) duly elected by the > membership of the ITF to be it's next head, was unceremoniously unelected by > who? Wouldn't it take the membership of the ITF to unelect him? > > It would seem to me that unless Master Choi has done something that would > seriously tarnish the ITF as a organization, such a move would be illegal. > But since I don't know the ITF by-laws, I have no idea what position these > people who have unelected Master Choi are claming as a defense. Usually, if > someone is dissatisfied with a Federation, they leave and form their own > (Which why if you have three KMA masters together, there's seven > federation/associations/unions/other groups represented), not 'hijack' the > Federation with something like this. > > Does anyone know under what circumstances that these people can claim to be > able to do such a thing? I have no stake in this -- I am not an ITF member. > Heck, my main KMA isn't even TKD. But unless these people have a compelling > case for such an action, it appears to me that Master Choi and his supporters > are in the right on this -- that his removal as the next head of the ITF is > illegal. > > This is going to hurt TKD -- not directly, not immediately, but down the > road. I expect to see another TKD Federation of some sort arise out of this, > splintering TKD's influence even more. Heaven knows we need another TKD > organization like I need to be thrown around by Steven Sagal, but with nearly > every TKD federation/associations/unions/other groups out there grabbing for > a smaller piece of the pie, there is a point where there is going to be a > collapse that is going to rattle the TKD world. > > Of course, that's my Opinion, I could be wrong....^_^ > > Craig _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "J. R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 16:21:54 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Treating students like customers Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net M West has a seminar and we know about it a year in advance and everybody with a belly-button is invited. > > Bruce I just wanted everyone to know that I plan to ask Bruce to stand at the front door of the 17th Int. seminar in August and check for belly-buttons, as we may be open to "just about' everyone, but we DO have SOME limits as to entrance requirements.... > Master West, I agree with the second point... And my wife would too ... :) > > Could you elaborate on the first point some? When I 1st opened a school in the early 1970's, I couldn't have cared less whether anyone ever got promoted or not, nor did it matter to me to try to fulfill the expectations of those that entered my class. I taught HapKiDo my way, and you learned it my way. Now I make it a habit to find out WHY someone has stumbled into my dojang, and if it is for weight loss, then THAT is what I talk to them about, and if self-defense is their concern, then THAT is the issue that I will address. If one of my black-belts was a little harsh on a group of lower belts, that was just part of the territory, and white belts might have considered themselves "slave labor" after class. After some serious reflection over the next few years, I realized that the people that will mentally commit to "staying forever", usually do so after at least a year in the program, and I thought about the number of good students that left before they were experienced enough to really be able to make that decision. For many, many years now I have looked into the martial arts business as "providing a service", and with that in mind, my approach is very different. Martial arts will affect everyone that comes in contact with them, and the more people we come in contact with, the more positive effect we will have on the population. The trick in all this is to be able to do it without relaxing your standards of excellence......J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Michael Forman" To: Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 11:17:05 +1000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: New school advice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I have also been following this thread with a little interest. I am part of a group of instructors who have in the last 16 months started a non-profit TKD association. Even though we are non-profit, it is in our interest to keep the association running, which requires getting students through the door. On the Yellow Pages thing. When we first started we missed the Yellow Pages by about 2 months. This was not that much of a problem because we had around 50 students who formed our association. We are a break-away from a rather nasty and politically motivated ex Master instructor, who although technically very good, did not manage people or his school very well. Anyway, towards the end of the year as some of our original students started to fade away, we were not getting any new students. We then did a few different forms of advertising however did not have much success. The new Yellow Pages has just come out in the last month or two with our add in it. We have had a remarkable jump in interest since. Our add is small in comparison and not well placed so it is a little surprising. What I put it down to is, when people hear about us by work of mouth the first thing they do is go to the Yellow Pages to find our add/number. So even though it is a small add it is there, and combined with other advertising (Radio, flyers, New paper articles etc) and word of mouth it seems to be effective. As for lessons learnt. I would stay we are still in the middle of that process!! However our mind set has changed a little since we first started. Our main goal originally was to make everything as 'cheap' as possible. We really tried to save our students money, they were loyal to us afterall. We found that by doing that we made it harder to run the school. Money is still quite tight, but with a few more paying 'customers' now our future is looking a little more secure, and our students are happy in the knowledge that we will still be around to teach them. Back to lurking... Michael > Subject: [The_Dojang] New school advice? > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > I've been reading, with interest, the thread on reputation and marketing, > and fully agree that focusing on quality is a must. However, this brings > another question to mind: > > After your school has become established, is there one thing you wish you > would have done sooner? What I am looking for is some advice from school > owners, from your experience, that might be of use to someone just starting > a school. Something that you are now doing that you wished you started > sooner, realized earlier, thought about first, implemented from the > beginning, didn't do at all, etc........ > > I know, there's probably more than one thing, but listening to information > about the minimal impact of yellow page ads makes me think that money is > better spent elsewhere in the beginning...... > > So, any little hints like that are greatly appreciated. Thank you. > > In the spirit, > Mark.Lasich@alcoa.com > > -- __--__-- --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:18:45 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Student Recruitment Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yep, here in Texas we like to offer a lot of amenities to attract students. That's why we offer the following at our dojang: a.. 1.8 mile track (banked for NASCAR fans) a.. Batting cages (with Omar dolls) b.. Baby sitting services (up to 18 years of age if blonde) c.. Workout room with free weights and machines (that's coke machines) d.. Racquet ball courts (the racket is from people hitting each other) e.. Shower facilities (separate men and women's) f.. Children's playground (complete with alligator moat) g.. Soccer fields (with claymore mines) h.. A river to fish in (cause there's fire ants on the bank) i.. And more Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 3 Apr 2002 21:44:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] ITF picture Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Looks like they are holding hands.?. http://www.korea-np.co.jp/pk/157th%5Fissue/150th%5Fissue/2000102706.htm Ray Terry --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest