Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 06:43:15 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #195 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. CDT Vs Krav Maga (DS26347@aol.com) 2. Top Ten Martial Arts Continued (Ken McDonough) 3. Bassai and other musings (Emactkd@aol.com) 4. Re: Top 10 Martial Arts on TV (David Concannon) 5. RE: Difference in Hyungs etc (NESSWORTHY, KEN) 6. My Friend Mike's New Book=Chicago Style Defense (Ken McDonough) 7. Bruce Hyungs (Charles Richards) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: DS26347@aol.com Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 16:51:20 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] CDT Vs Krav Maga Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net CDT Vs Krav Maga I've researched both and although I thought Krav Maga was very effective I chose CDT for the following reasons: 1- It was more legally conscious. Some times you win in the street but lose in the court. CDT is the only system I've seen factor this in as a major part of their system. 2- The family protection, CDT is the only system to date that I've seen address protecting the family and loved ones as part of their system. I've been in Korean arts for over 23 years and with CDT for two, they complement each other very well. CDT deals with the very minimal application of force situations and the nightmare scenarios where someone is threatening a loved one. CDT does not get involved with your style and how you teach it, they make sure you teach CDT properly and follow CDT's guidelines for CDT instruction. They have a wonderful support staff. If you have any questions contact them www.cdt-training.com Good luck D.S >> Return-path: From: DS26347@aol.com Full-name: DS26347 Message-ID: <15e.bc8af11.29e33b3f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 14:28:15 EDT Subject: Re: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #192 - 7 msgs To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: AOL 7.0 for Windows US sub 118 CDT Vs Krav Maga I've researched both and although I thought Krav Maga was very effective I chose CDT for the following reasons: 1- It was more legally conscious. Some times you win in the street but lose in the court. CDT is the only system I've seen factor this in as a major part of their system. 2- The family protection, CDT is the only system to date that I've seen address protecting the family and loved ones as part of their system. I've been in Korean arts for over 23 years and with CDT for two, they complement each other very well. CDT deals with the very minimal application of force situations and the nightmare scenarios where someone is threatening a loved one. CDT does not get involved with your style and how you teach it, they make sure you teach CDT properly and follow CDT's guidelines for CDT instruction. They have a wonderful support staff. If you have any questions contact them www.cdt-training.com Good luck D.S --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 8 Apr 2002 20:23:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Top Ten Martial Arts Continued Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere you noted: Good points. Well, it is a series on A&E that categorizes the top 10 of various things. Of course it misses many points. But your memory is very good ! I personally thought the Dog Brothers Kali stuff was way over the top. I know these guys in Southern California get out there and crack each other over the head, but I scratched my head--they like getting injured ? They are more macho than the McD man, I guess. I like to avoid injuries. I have my mother's features but my father's fixtures ! Some of the information was good if you wanted to contact a certain instructor like the Krav Magna school in Los Angeles, or the Muay Thai School in San Francisco. Actually, Aikido is heavily steeped in "Chi" and spiritual wrappings. I met a good Aikido instructor in Cebu, Philippines who lived and breathed (sic) the Aikido concepts. But he did have a smell for lack of baths. The Chi did not help that. I also heard that a bunch of thugs jumped him to see how good he was and apparently he was hurt bad. A macabre way to see if your art is better than a well known practitioner's art. The Krav Magna (sic) stuff seemed realistic application and I liked the Muay Thai presentation, which also has spiritual connections. I loved that line in the Van Damme movie "I want Tong Po...give me Tong Po..." I identified with the Okinawan stuff and it is amazing that they still train that hard. I remember training that way in the 80's. Hard to find students today who will train that way. Remember hitting those macki-wah boards (miss spelled). I thought the Combat Kali was an off-shoot of the Okinawan Stuff with more combat applications. A hybrid so to speak. I won't mention Combat Hapkido here cause I don't want no arguments. Yes, it is hard to lump martial arts into a top ten, but this is TV and made for short sound bites. Now, I have seen the top ten muscle cars on the same show. Coming in at number two is the Chevy Chevelle SS. Yes, my 67 Chevelle SS does have the 396 engine with 400 plus HP, bucket seats, Muncie 4 speed, and numbers matching. It was apparently kept in a barn for 17 years under hay. The guy told his wife that he sold it. But he kept it under wraps. But, I brag a little. By the way, A & E has this Macho Man series all week with Harleys, Daytona, and other top ten stuff. But it is politically incorrect to watch that, so don't ! Or, like the guy with the 67 Chevelle SS did, tell your wife, girlfriend, or coed friend, that you don't watch macho stuff, your a sensitive guy. Then put it on in your private room. No one will know. Like sneaking a smoke in the boys room in high school. Sorry,I ramble again. Peace, McD... Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 01:20:48 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Bassai and other musings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just thought I'd swing in here. I have seen Bassai listed as Pasai, Bassai Dai, Bassai te, etc. All very close, and recognizable as the same form the way Cockney and Texan are the same language. But these forms are alive. Not dead relics in a book. It is the interpretation of the master that brings them to life. I think it is hard to actually identify what is the "right " way to do these forms. Regardless of how you learn about them, only your instructor's way is correct for you. Rick Foley --__--__-- Message: 4 From: David Concannon To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Top 10 Martial Arts on TV Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 09:46:48 +0100 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Combat Kali Unknown: Some very strange art founded by an American (I do not remember the name), all they did was see how soon they could receive disability checks by punching and kicking each other as hard as they could, even in the throat. I saw a documentary on this on the Discovery channel recently. As far as I recall it's called "Combat Ki", the general idea being that the practicioners learn how to direct ki energy to a specific body area to prevent injury when struck. They showed two Master-level candidates perform a grading which was more like some sort of college hazing than a test of skill. They were blindfolded and then kicked and punched up and down a hall, with the idea being that they had to anticipate the incoming attack. Then again, the attack never seemed to come until the candidate had started bracing themselves with breathing techniques etc. If they walked away from the ordeal then they were a master. :) Would it not be quicker to walk into a biker bar and start shouting abuse? --------------------------- Dave Concannon Software Engineer, SteelTrace david.concannon@steeltrace.com 1 Westland Square, Pearse St., Dublin 2, Ireland p: +353 1 635 9118 f: +353 1 679 0969 http://www.steeltrace.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 07:34:57 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Difference in Hyungs etc Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Group, I would like to thank everyone who responded to my cry for information regarding 'traditional' TSD hyungs. The person who told me that the knife hand blocks in Bassai was Master Edmonson from Tiger Gym International (TGI Tang Soo Do). He used to be taught by GM Lee, Kang Uk before moving to the TGI under GM Han (GM Han was taught by GM Hwang Kee and used to be his best fighter in the days of challenging Dojang owners) Some of you may have heard of GM Han, if you have seen any old photos of GM Kwang look for a guy with a goatee type beard that is GM Han. Once again thank you for the information, I now have a lot of research to do and I don't doubt that I will again be asking for advice. Best regards, Ken Shinson TSD Tang Soo!! --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 04:47:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] My Friend Mike's New Book=Chicago Style Defense Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mike: OK. I will pass along the below information to the the folks at the Dojang Digest and Martial Science lists. But, I have to correct you. You can't use the word "Broad" anymore. It is politically inappropriate and just plain wrong. Use Ladies or Females. The terms Broads, Chicks, Dames, and Babes is out the window. Mike, I love ya, but this ain't the 60's. Watch the new Phil Donahue show. He will provide tips on being sensitive in today's society. Mike, let me know when your new book signing tour begins this summer. I miss those dirty jokes you told about the backroom speakeasy. Man, your a gas ! Ken McD... --- Mike Hammer wrote: > Yo, Big Ken: > > Please pass along to your chump friends over at the wreckingcrew. > > I am ready to publish my new book, "Booze, Broads, and Bratwurst=The 3 > B's" > > A compilation of South Side Chicago techniques learned in > pool halls, speakeasy's, juke joints, and after hour clubs. > I give a chapter devoted to the best polish sausage and > bratwurst eateries, along with 2 for 1 well drink specials. > > An accompanying video on survival techniques in some of these joints is > under production. I use a meat packing plant > and a slaughtered steer to show how deep a 4 inch knife can > penetrate skin and muscle. This is accompanied by an autopsy > visit to Cook County Hospital on a Saturday morning. We learn how the > "Friday night specials" arrived. Of the 5 guys and ladies, only I, Mike > Hammer, remained. I think we lost a couple of people when they started > with the saw on the skull. But, makes you know it is good to not be on a > slab at the morgue on a Saturday morning ! > > The point of this is you gotta learn how to survive in the > mean streets of Chicago and other places before you can > enjoy what the places have to offer. > > This stuff is the real deal, with no fluff. Warning: No for > the faint of heart. Blood, guts, and a little glory all thrown in for > measure. > > I have a picture of me with my grey Stetson on the cover. > > On August 4, 2001 I will be at Border's Books, 201 Wells, > Chicago, Illinois for a book signing session. > > Just wanted to pass this information along for interested > parties. > > Mike Hammer > > ApexMail now registers domains! www.apexmail.com Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Tue, 9 Apr 2002 05:21:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce Hyungs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Lets start with the nature of the kata themselves. About all of the kata that are taught in both TKD and TSD are begged, borrowed, or stolen from the Japanese traditions. Just about every kata I can think of came to the Koreans courtesy of the Funakoshi tradition (aka: Shotokan kata) which is pretty much the source of most of Karate tradition in Japan. There are, of course Goju-ryu, and Uechi-ryu and Shito-ryu but Funakoshi is recognized as bringing Karate to Japan and getting it into the school system just as his teacher, Itosu got it into the Okinawan school system. Between Itosu and Funakoshi the idea seems to have been to do for Karate what Kano did for Ju-jutsu: to wit: make a safe, and scientifically rationale, approach to a martial sport from a martial art (REF: I agree with Bruce, but allow me to soften it a little...IMHO TSD Hyungs are very close to waht Funakoshi Sensei taught...probably because TSD founder GM Lee, Won Kyuk learned them from Gigo Funakoshi? With the creation of a Korean National sport, it was very important for the Koreans to "Nationalize" the art, so more kicks where added, and motions where re-organized into different patterns, but the motions are the same. Watching my fellow AAU competitors do TKD forms sometimes looks like they are doing TSD forms with the moves in the wrong order, or half of one form, and pieces from another. Now if you agree with Dillman Sensei, this teaching to school children is when the combatative aspects of Moo Sul were blunted, and the focus shifted to character development Moo Do. Nothing wrong with that, just some of the pain compliance and joint manipulation applications stop being taught. The resulting "applications" that are often "made up" are idiotic. Even worse teaching the more combatative applications will get you drummed out of most schools and/or organizations (especially if nobody else understands the combatative applications). Now, heres' the fly in the ointment. By the time you get finished reading these four books you will know more about the origins of the kata that became the TKD hyung than your teacher. However, you will still be under his authority and expected to do things his way. What will make it worse is that you will KNOW that you are doing the hyung wrong, and know why it needs to be done differently and there will probably be nothing you can do about it as far as he is concerned. And I am REAL sorry about that. Good luck. Neh :-) Train with Jung Do in your heart The rest is commentary Charles Richards Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. 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