Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 06:46:27 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #204 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Aikido in Korea (Andrew Pratt) 2. RE: Korean Fan Hyung info needed (NESSWORTHY, KEN) 3. Re: Personalities (Bruce Sims) 4. Re: Decisions, decisions (Bruce Sims) 5. Deadly Force (Randall Sexton) 6. Re: Civilians in an Uncivilized World (Bruce Sims) 7. Aikido Clips (Morgan James) 8. Aikido Clips (Morgan James) 9. Newsletter Ideas (Morgan James) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 13:07:21 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Aikido in Korea Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray, You wrote recently in the Dojang Digest (which you run so magnificently): > Now that WEE is off the hook, how about we put Andrew on it.?. :) I believe that Andrew is studying Aikido (and a bit of HDGD) in Korea??? Andrew, is it possible for you to tell how/if your instructor's Aikido teaching has been influenced by the Hapkido (generic or not :) around you? Have you had a chance to visit any Aikido dojos in Japan or elsewhere to compare the Aikido in Korea with the Aikido outside the country? < Ha Ha Ha, excuse me while I stop laughing... Disclaimers: I am but an average ma student so I have no great insights into how martial arts operate in Korea. I have only very limited exposure to Hapkido. Also, my experience of Aikido is limited to a few UK clubs. I have not studied Aikido in Japan. In other words, read the following with a bucket of salt handy! The Aikido organisation I am a member of (there are 3 groups in Korea and the group I am with seems to be the largest and best organised) is led by Yun Ik-am. The former DD member Rupert Atkinson has a brief bio of Yun-sensei on his website (http://www.angelfire.com/mac/aikido/index.html). Yun-sensei seems to have had a long and varied experience of martial arts. He started out with, no surprises here, TKD. I guess from the pictures in the dojo that he learned from his father. Like most young lads, he could do those flying split kicks and break those blocks. I presume that at some point in his mid-20s be became involved in the local kick-boxing scene. Yun-sensei was a good fighter and for a while was the national champion in his weight. There is picture in the dojo of him in classic kick-boxing pose with hands raised while wearing his champions' belt. His success seems to have encouraged Yun-sensei to study Thai Boxing in Thailand and then set up his own club in Korea. There is still the Thai Boxing connection in that some dojos are shared with Thai Boxing clubs. Unfortunately, cross-training does not occur. At some point along the way Yun-sensei acquired several dan grades at Hapkido. During a trip to Taiwan (of all places) Yun-sensei seems to have discovered and become interested in Aikido. I was introduced to Yun-sensei in about 1996 by Rupert. I don't know how Rupert found Yun-sensei. At that time Yun-sensei had been teaching Aikido for only a short time. On my part, I had been practising Aikido for a couple of years. I remember those classes being fairly basic. Rupert has commented that they were more Hapkido than Aikido but I don't recall thinking that (my exposure wasn't that long and Rupert is far more experienced in Aikido than me). Over the last couple of years Yun-sensei has developed his ideas of Aikido (which are predominately based on Kobayashi-sensei's interpretation of Aiki-kai) and raised a crop of Aikido students in Korea. I think that Yun-sensei is very talented and has a good idea of what he wants to do. The energy levels are higher in Korea than in the UK dojos I attended in my former life and sometimes I think I can see hapkido influences. I particularly enjoy these classes. Unfortunately, there is no systematic exploitation of his knowledge of other styles (i.e. along the lines of, 'the Thai Boxers will attack this way so you can counter with...'). This, I think, is a missed opportunity. The other noticeable difference is that in the UK we normally only ever practised one technique at a time. It was always assumed that we were such good martial artists that in the heat of the moment that would be all we would need. Here, there is much more flow to the technique and we often practise one technique becoming another as uki reacts to our initial technique. I think this is very good preparation for the student so that they do not panic when the initial technique fails the do not stop fighting but can carry on an apply an alternative technique. I do not know if this is a Yun-sensei inspiration or something within Kobayashi-sensei's tradition. Yun-sensei hasn't stopped cross-training. Aikido has strong links to Japanese sword arts. Recognising the limits of his knowledge, Yun-sensei studied Haidong Komdo (a Korean sword art) to improve his weapons techniques. I do not know if he has formally graded in HDGD. HDGD techniques are not taught. In the last month Yun-sensei has been to Japan to study at a weapons dojo. To sum up, I think that the HKD influence is there (we practise take downs against kicks (front, turning and side). In the UK I practised a defence against front kick once in about 5 years of practise). However, that influence has lessoned over time. I think that Yun-sensei is a very good martial artist because of his previous training but he appears to be interested in passing on only standard Aikido techniques. Using his previous knowledge to address some of the limitations in standard Aikido does not seem to be one of his aims. Apologies for the long post on a non-Korean martial art. Andrew --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "NESSWORTHY, KEN" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 05:52:03 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Korean Fan Hyung info needed Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Group, I am looking for a Korean Fan Hyung for our female students to learn for a forthcoming demonstration. Can anyone pass on any information regarding such a hyung, either an MPEG or written or a link to a website will do. Thanks in advance Regards, Ken Shinson Tang Soo Do --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:22:47 -0500 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Personalities Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Don: ".....So, how about you drops tell us unwashed masses about these two people? I'm sure I'm not the only one scratching my head here, and it would be nice to know what Bruce means next time he mentions GM whatshisname in one of his posts....." Every activity has its champions. If this was Karate we would be discussing Matsumora, Kyan, Miyagi and Funakoshi. If This was Baseball you'd get names like Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams and Babe Ruth. Its the same with KMA and with the Hapkido arts in particular (which is, of course, my particular weakness). Dr. He-Young Kimm is arguably the single most accomplished and perhaps the single best published resource in documenting, researching and reporting the Korean martial arts and martial traditions.His current organization, Hanmudo, represents a lifetime dedication to this effort. GM Han Jae Ji is regarded by most as the "father of Modern Hapkido" having been instrumental in reconciling the Japanese aiki-ju-jutsu tradition with the Korean Taek Kyon tradition. His current organization, Sin Mu Hapkido represents a lifetime dedication to this effort. In addition, there are names such as Yong Sul Choi, In Hyuk Suh, Joo Bang Lee and many others and all have been instrumental in shaping the arts that we practice today. I tend to continually trot these personalities out before the viewing public because I believe that we are better served when we know these folks for who they are or who they were rather than as some revered abstracts before whose image we burn incense. I am sure that Ray has many of these personalities mentioned in the FAQ section of the DD and I heartily encourage folks to read-up on them, ask questions about them and challenge what they have passed to us. It is, afterall, in the challenging that the material passed to us proves itself over and again to each generation. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:40:52 -0500 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Decisions, decisions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Don: ".....It *is* strange that Koreans would keep something forced onto them during the Japanese occupation. But when you think about it, what choice do they have? Should they go "Okay, the stuff we've all been practicing for the last 50 years isn't Korean, it's actually Japanese...." I understand your thought and at first blush I want to agree with you. A couple of points don't fit right for me, though. One point is that traditional arts such as Ssireum and Taek Kyon still existed after WW II albeit in a weakened condition where TKD and TSD needed to be formulated. For my money, a combination of rising nationalism and reassertion of traditions should have favored the existing arts and worked against the reformulation of an alien art, yes? Another point that doesn't get adequately explained is who were the people who were making these decisions and how did they come to be in influential positions? By this I mean--- using Gen Choi, for instance--- how did he come to find himself an army general after WW II and why did he choose to press the idea of teaching Karate to the Korean military instead of Taek Kyon? Korea has always been traditionally aligned with its Chinese neighbor and where the Japanese had Judo and ju-jutsu the Chinese had Shiao Chiao and Chin Na. Where the Japanese had Karate the Chinese has Chuan Fa. Why select an activity from the losing side of the war and a long-standing oppressor? FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:53:46 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Deadly Force Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In the Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Vol. 10 & 11, 2001, there is a two part article on "Civil and Criminal Liability: The Martial Artist's Potential." It's written by a MA and lawyer. Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 07:54:25 -0500 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Civilians in an Uncivilized World Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ian: "......Having served as a Marine (Force Recon) and as an FBI Special Agent >(Defensive Tactics and Firearms Instructor) for 13 years, I can say that use >of deadly force for a law enforcement officer (LEO) is not different for a >civilian. After all, we are all subjected to the same laws weather they be >federal, state, or local......" This is the point I was working to stress in my last post. The fact is, Ian, that we are not all subjected to the same laws in the same way and I think this is an important sticking point. The military and LEO both operate under specific rules of engagement and as you pointed out there is a very strict hierarchy of responses. Philosphically we civilians are often taught in MA classes to "restrain rather than maim; main rather than kill; kill rather than be killed..." However, these are interpretations of cultural injunctions rather than rules and laws. Rather, a civilian is expected to lead a violence-free life, and when presented with violence to leave its resolution in the hands of those delegated to such tasks. Now, as we all know, in most case the role of LEO, too often, is to clean up the mess and file paperwork regarding incidences-- after the fact. We can't have a LEO present at the specific instance of violation. On these occasions we civilians usurp peace-keeping tasks to ourselves under the rationale of self-defense. However, when we do, I think its important to know that we have crossed a line from being a civilian to being a para-military person. To expect that the laws of civilization will neatly cover the uncivilized acts necessary for self-preservation-at-all-costs is gonna be a stretch, and thats what helps the lawyer pay for his Porsche. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:15:42 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Aikido Clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I found some very interesting Aikido video clips featuring O-Sensei Morihei Ueshiba and thought that you guys might like to see them. These might be old news to some but I just now found them. For those of you with Aikido experience I mean absolutely NO disrespect with this question. In these clips why does it seem like that all the moves are choreographed? I mean that the attackers seem to be coming at O-Sensei with their arms extended in order to make it easier for him to grab them and it also looks as if they are beginning thier falls/flips BEFORE he even lays a hand on them..?? Personally, I do not have any Aikido experience so if this is common practice for Aikido then I apologize for asking. Anyways, they are interesting to say the least. Thanks. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:17:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Aikido Clips Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I guess it would be alot easier to view the clips if I gave you the url, huh?... Sorry. http://martialarts.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A%2F%2Fwww-cs e.ucsd.edu%2Fusers%2Fpaloma%2FAikido%2FAJ%2F James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 08:40:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Newsletter Ideas Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am in the process of creating a newsletter for my school in order to help keep all students and parents up to date on current events, promotion test results, tournament results, etc. Does anyone out there to this for their schools? Any suggestions on a name? Any suggestions on what NOT to put in a newsletter?? Thanks again. James Morgan GTKDA --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest