Date: Fri, 10 May 2002 00:10:53 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #231 - 7 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Bruce's enigma (michael tomlinson) 2. What's in a name? Naihanchi or Chulgi (Dunn, Danny J RASA) 3. RE: KM, KS, & HKD stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 4. Modern Arnis Summit (Dinnelle Wright) 5. Martial Arts in Florida (Logarit Ogtar) 6. RE: Since you asked Pt 2 (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. RE: Of Time-bombs and Booby-traps (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 12:41:21 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruce's enigma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have the feeling that maybe Bruce got a high dose of reality,, no offense Bruce but didn't you tell us last month that you were tired of going to training events only to have 3rd and 4th dans tell you that they can't practice so and so techniques because they were injured or hesitant, well this was your chance to let it loose baby!! There are a lot of techniques offered up in two days at the Sin Moo seminars, hey guess what,, Doju Nim EXPECTS you to actually practice these techniques later after the seminar for years on end, Sin Moo seminars are not meant to be attended one time and then you go back to your old status quo training,, I am sorry that you didn't enjoy yourself but maybe this will help you be introspective,, it sounds to me like Bruce is used to being in charge and maybe has trouble becoming a student again, sometimes ego is a funny thing, it is like the steam on the mirror in the morning after your shower, sometimes you have to wipe it away to truly see who you are! Maybe more practice and less cerebral masturbation is in order. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:46:58 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] What's in a name? Naihanchi or Chulgi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have heard the name Chulgi used for the Naihanchi Hyungs, particularly in years past. Can anyone translate Chulgi for me and tell me if the use of this name is associated with any particular Kwans? Thanks. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:04:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: KM, KS, & HKD stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Spunky: "..... I found many different MA instructors that I like and respect. I myself combine the KM for quickly learned simple self defense moves along with Arnis for weapons training. I also do some KSW still, but that is more for the esoteric qualities that I can't get in the others. I expect to stay years with all, but figure the more complex the skills, the longer it will take me to acquire. ...." I just wanted to say that I really like the way you two are discussing KM vis other traditions. For a little bit I thought this was going to be yet one more "which is best" kind of pissing contest. I wish we could have more of this kind of balanced comparitive discussion. If I can just add to what has already been said, let me represent myself as the flip-side from you, Spunky. I get from your post that KM is more attractive to you because pragmatic self-defense material carries a higher priority than esoterica which I understand you rely on KS to provide. By comparison, I would be the opposite mix in that I tend to focus on historical, cultural and personal growth aspects of KMA as a priority, and would probably only use a KM class --- most probably only a seminar-- to familiarize myself with the syllabus or consider their execution of a comparable technique from Hapkido. In my personal opinion, compared to Hapkido, I think that KM serves a real purpose by providing a no-nonsense alternative for folks who who do not want to submitt to long-term MA study. I can say this because I would rather someone did something like that rather than take the art of Hapkido and attempt to reduce it to a bare-bones, mastered-in-an-afternoon sort of experience. Just my 2 won, FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Dinnelle Wright To: eskrima@martialartsresource.net Cc: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Modern Arnis Summit Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Modern Arnis Summit East - meets - West Portland Oregon June 15, 2002 Senior Master Dan Anderson and Datu Tim Hartman team up to teach Remy Presas’ stick and knife fighting techniques. For information and registration go to: http://www.modernarnissummit .com Yahoo! Shopping - Mother's Day is May 12th! http://shopping.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Logarit Ogtar" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 09 May 2002 10:38:07 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Martial Arts in Florida Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am a practicioner of Tae Kwon Do and love the art. I have also practiced a little Hapkido and I am curious about Capoeira and all martial arts in general. I might be moving to Florida for Job reasons and I want to find a good martial art school, actually a good master... I have the best master and would love to find someone like him that in Florida, He is a very dedicated person, excellent with kids, in great shape and a A+ master all around... I am looking primeraly in the Tampa bay area or Miami... So could you guys send me some replies... I have looked in the internet but nothing really has been what I have looking for. I want more personal experiences about the schools if anyone is from the Florida area... Thanks Logtar. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:16:56 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Since you asked Pt 2 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Aplogies to everyone. The second half of my comments didn't make transmission. Here are the balance of my thoughts on Ft. Collins. B. ".......Were his techniques painful? Sure. So are mine and anyone elses that get in there an crank away. (Whats the point?) Which brings us to technical skill. This was probably the point at which I was most disappointed. For someone who is ascribed as the "father of Modern Hapkido" I really expected to see clean, sharp, smooth biomechanics. I saw a lot of sound coordination, and very good speed, but the accuracy of grips, vectors, projection of center, off-balancing, mis-timing and a host of other issues that most higher ranking individuals tussle with in their training were just not what I expected of the head of an entire style. In my mind I was bumping GM Ji up against M Whalen and M Hilliard and I have to tell you that both of the latter had much better accuracy, with Hal having better application of power and Jere demonstrating greater grace and fluidity. Having finally seen GM Ji do his thing, perhaps I have uncovered the source of the attitude that Hapkido is just "bad ju-jutsu". I don't know. So, where does that leave me. Well, I have trained under a few of the folks who trace their lineage back to GM Choi through GM Ji. I think GM Myung, Kwang Sik had cleaner technique than his teacher Ji, but it was still heavily skewed toward the ju-jutsu side of the tradition. Nor do I see much insight into the techniques themselves. There are, granted, a limited number of ways to lock up an arm and/or execute a technique but some of the techniques which Ji presented were fraught with problems regarding counters and I see this more and more on that side of the KMA traditions. On the side of the tradition more closely associated with Chinese traditions there can be much better accuracy in execution, but the organizations are so fractioned that I am beginning to doubt that anyone really knows a cohesive syllabus and a technique can be modified and re-modified by the instructor many times as they walk the line between combat-effectiveness and training liabilities. I am not sure where I go from here. Ft Collins was a gas, and Sean and M McKenzie and the rest seemed genuinely invested in what they do. Its' plain that they are engaged with GM Ji and his way of doing things and they seem pretty well connected with each other. I expected that they would have been out on the mat a whole lot more, but thats just a special issue of my own coming out. Seems like at some point people cut back on doing and spend more time teaching and showing. (I am in the same place and have to work hard to keep myself out on the mat both giving AND taking falls.) I didn't see many of the folks who talk a lot about supporting GM Ji's approach. If the tall Korean student was Michael Choi he never introduced himself. Of course, I didn't go out of my way to introduce myself either so its a draw on who gets the moral high-ground there. I guess that about sums it up. It was an interesting experience and WAAAAYY too much time spent sitting on a bus......" Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 9 May 2002 07:44:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Of Time-bombs and Booby-traps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear "F": "..... We have one mentally handicapped man in our school, and he has never threatened or intended to harm anyone. In fact, I enjoy having him there as he tries so hard in practice despite his "disability." But I'd imagine that if he was trying to hurt people or disrupt the class,that our instructor would ask him to leave, for good if that's what it took after several talking tos...." What a surprise to read your comment this morning after my class last night. I have a few students between my basic and my intermediate level Hapkido classes who sign-up for the class not so much to learn "Hapkido-- the art" but more so to pick-up a few things to augment whatever other MA experience they may have. About 80% of the time this is not a problem. About another 15% of the time it requires me to take them off to the side and remind them that the class is for learning Hapkido material and I expect them to defer to the class agenda. Then there is that last 5% who are simply there for whatever reason, do not want to comply with the program, do so only when they are sure I am watching and will, despite risk to others, come out of left field with whatever occurs to their reptilian mind. Last night one such individual took it upon himself to execute a knee-strike to my groin out of all context to what we were doing. The strike was "high and wide" as they say in baseball, so I had no need of Mrs. Sims' ministrations when I got home. But for about a second I wanted to turn this guy on his ear and use his butt for a waste paper basket. It then occurred to me that I had been blessed that it had been I and not one of the other introductory students that he had decided to pull this stunt on. Further, that as it is the end of the semester he may move on to sample other MA programs on campus or, should he return to my class for another semester, be restricted with some form of "my-way-or-the-highway" kind of contract--- now that he has shown his predilections. When it comes to the out&out crazies in a MA class it seems that the choices are simpler. For me, the greater challenge are the "borderline" or marginal problem-children who simmer compliantly in a class, needing only an opportunity to pull a stunt like last night. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-578-4632 FAX 719-578-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest