Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:37:35 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #250 - 13 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Changing style depending on opponent - Taek kyon (Teressa) 2. Re: GM Duk Sun Son`s books (Piotr Bernat) 3. RE: More on Bassai (Dunn, Danny J RASA) 4. Bassai Sho (John Klingler) 5. Titles for Ray (Laurie S.) 6. Serious Demo Problem (John Klingler) 7. FYI: Taps (Meghan Gardner) 8. Re: accessing archives (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 9. Yun Bee (Charles Richards) 10. Hyung (Charles Richards) 11. non-digestified version of the_dojang (Ray Terry) 12. RE: Hyung (Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)) 13. More ITF split stuff (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 22:05:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Teressa To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Changing style depending on opponent - Taek kyon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello everyone, If you all remember, I posted a little while ago with a description of Taek kyon. Well, I'm still in Korea and still practicing. I've noticed that my style during sparring changes dramatically depending on who I'm fighting or dancing with. If my opponent is advanced and very fluid, I become more fluid than I would be on my own. I can even pull off techniques and movements that surprise me. Not my usual arsenal. If my opponent is choppy and lower level, my performance is also lower than my ability. On the other hand, I can see holes in their defence and take advantage of them. Essentially my style changes. This means to me that I am a good follower. I can mimic. But, is this necessarily a good thing? Shouldn't my opponent be having to adjust to me? Sparring includes lots of kicks as well as grappling techniques. Due to the language barrier, I can't ask my teacher about this. Actually, I've tried, and he said its a good thing, but I'm not sure he completely understood. It's not that I'm changing to suit the requirements of the sparring session, it's that I'm reflecting what I'm encountering. Thanks in advance for your input. The girls at my middle school are having a sports day, so I'd better get out there and cheer!!!! Teressa One of the Digest's foreign correspondents! LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:07:55 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: GM Duk Sun Son`s books Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I would LOVE to a get a copy of both of GM Duk Sun Son's books!! I have > been looking for them for quite sometime. (...) > Anybody know where I can get these books at a decent price?? Hi James, I bought both of them on eBay for quite a fair price. Of course it took some time but I was really happy with the transaction. Regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:14:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More on Bassai Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Craig, Some practioners place animal names with the various forms, and indeed Bassai forms are often associated with the snake or cobra specifically (obviously because it is so deadly). Another animal I have seen associated with Bassai is the tiger, but I've heard the snake more often. The different ways of writing come from the original Hanja or Chinese characters, which is what I could not show in the last post. Appearantly some meanings or definitions change somewhat over long periods of time(impression I got anyway) and in some cases more than one character have the same pronounciation. In the case of "che", there were three different Hanja characters I believe that GM Shin, Jae Chul shows in Tang Soo Do, Volume II, The Basics. Tom, I believe that the Chung Do Kwan black belt form would be Bassai Dai. Danny Dunn <<<<<< To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bassai Sho Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 19:08:47 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net US Chung Do Kwan Black Belts learn Bassai when moving from 2nd degree to 3rd. I do not know whether the Bassai is Sho or Dae.>>>>>>>>> --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "John Klingler" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Bassai Sho Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:17:35 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am 2nd dan but learned Bassai (or what I have also heard it called, Bal sak dae) when I was testing for my 1st dan. Just my $0.02 Klingler -----Original Message----- From: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net [mailto:the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net]On Behalf Of Tom Kennelly Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 7:09 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Bassai Sho US Chung Do Kwan Black Belts learn Bassai when moving from 2nd degree to 3rd. I do not know whether the Bassai is Sho or Dae. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Richards" To: "Dojang Digest" Sent: Tuesday, May 14, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] Bassai Sho We only do the one Bassai (Dae). Most of the Okinawan and Japanese styles which this comes from does do 2 different verions, Bassai Dae and Bassai Sho. The only Korean styles I've seen do both of them tended to follow more from the KongSooDo side or those who's founders had learned Japanese Karate first prior to TangSooDo/TaeKwonDo. You don't see Bassai sho done much in Korean Karate. (at least I haven't) A while back we had a TangSooDo competition here in Atlanta and students of KJN Kim Tong Moon (Global Tang Soo Do) competed with Bassai Sho. I think they explained it as an "extra" form introduced around Red or Cho Dan Bo....FWIW Yours in Jung Do, Charles R. Moja Kwan LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:34:39 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Titles for Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: <<<>>> No, Ray. It's Grand Pooh Pah (grandmaster) Of the DD :oD _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: John Klingler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 06:45:29 -0700 (PST) Subject: [The_Dojang] Serious Demo Problem Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I was sitting at the judges table a couple days ago grading some students at a promotion test when during the closing comments, my Master Instructor gave his remarks. "Mr. Klingler (me) be hosting the next Promotion Test in August... he will also be giving a performance for demonstration purposes." I was aware that I would be hosting the next test, it is no big deal, but this thing about putting on a demonstration took me by surprise (more like shocked). If I were unemployed, or a student, I may have time to put together a demo. I have decided that I will do my best to come up with something but would not guarantee anything super. Can anyone help with demo ideas that I could use either as a form demo, or something I could put together for my class to participate? I prefer the latter. Any comments? Klingler --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Meghan Gardner" To: Date: Wed, 15 May 2002 07:10:35 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] FYI: Taps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >From Urban Legends (http://www.snopes2.com/): Origins: It's hard to feel surprised when a melody as hauntingly beautiful as Taps picks up a legend about how it came to be written -- it's too mournfully direct a piece for the mere truth to suffice. Taps was composed in July 1862 at Harrison's Landing in Virginia, but after that the fanciful e-mail quoted above parts way with reality. There was no dead son, Confederate or otherwise; no lone bugler sounding out the dead boy's last composition. How the call came into being was never anything more than one influential soldier deciding his unit could use a bugle call for particular occasions and setting about to come up with one. If anyone can be said to have composed 'Taps,' it was Brig. Gen. Daniel Butterfield, Commander of the 3rd Brigade, 1st Division, V Army Corps, Army of the Potomac, during the American Civil War. Dissatisfied with the customary firing of three rifle volleys at the conclusion of burials during battle and also needing a method of ceremonially imparting meaning to the end of a soldier's day, he likely altered an older piece known as "Tattoo," a French bugle call used to signal "lights out," into the call we now know as 'Taps.' (Alternatively, he wrote the whole thing from scratch, a possibility not at all supported by his lack of musical background and ability.) Whether he wrote it straight from the cuff or improvised something new by rearranging an older work, Butterfield brought 'Taps' into being. With the help of his bugler, Oliver W. Norton of Chicago, the concept was transformed into its present form. "Taps" was quickly taken up by both sides of the conflict, and within months was being sounded by buglers in both Union and Confederate forces. Then as now, 'Taps' serves as a vital component in ceremonies honoring military dead. It is also understood by American servicemen as an end-of-day 'lights out' signal. When "Taps" is played at a military funeral, it is customary to salute if in uniform, or place your hand over your heart if not. --__--__-- Message: 8 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:13:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: accessing archives Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> oh, great poobah, i was trying to access whichever one you posted a day or two ago. it was in reference to chung do kwan history. you said the entire article was posted at XXX. i dont know the exact address now :( mel Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2001 10th Annual US Open TKD Championships --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:05:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Yun Bee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net One thing, it does show four Black belt hyung. Listed are: Ship Su - 25 movements - should be completd in about 30 seconds Chul Gi II - 25 - 20 secs Yun Bee - 36 - 30 secs Ja On - 37 - 30 secs I believe in a previous thread we concluded Yun Bee = Empi = Wansu/Wang Shu. So this would be a good reference of how CDKTSD become CDKTKD folks had "koreanized/modified" Ship Su Niahanji Yi Dan Wansu and Jion regards, Charles R. Moja Kwan LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 08:16:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hyung Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As far as execution, the biomechanics of the Hyung more closely approximate the SHOTOKAN ... True, but for those of us that practice TSD as a Hard/Soft style, research into our GoJu brethren may be more appropriate (an Oki style I believe). 4.)(WARNING: Personal Opinion :-) ) There is a very prominent rigidity that comes through the TSD pictures that I don't get from pictures of the same kata recorded in work on the Okinawan arts. My sense is that the Okinawans are performing the kata using the whole body while the Korean version seems to be very much a function of the shoulders and upper chest. Actually, TSD is supposed to be performed using the entire body especially twisting of the waist to generate power. Maybe the lack of video/intermediate pictures leaves this out, or these guys have a more Hard/hard Kong Soo Do feel than us Hard/soft Tang Soo Do players? FWIW Charles Richards Moja Kwan TangSooDo LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 09:05:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] non-digestified version of the_dojang Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net FYI, subscribers (you all) may now login to the-dojang.net using your username and password and set your preferences to receive the_dojang as individual emails instead of in digest format. If you do not recall your password, go to the same URL to have it sent to you. Feel free to give it a try. You may always switch back (using the same method) from individual emails to the digest format. The login portion is near the bottom of the page at http://the-dojang.net. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com California Taekwondo, Hapkido and Eskrima http://the-dojang.net http://eskrima-fma.net http://MartialArtsResource.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: "Woodard Brian (ChW/TEF8)" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Hyung Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 12:18:31 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Question for all. Feel free to state you own opinions What would you say is the difference between ITF TKD forms and the forms in GM Duk Song Son's TKD books with respect to style (hard/soft , hard/hard), generating power (upper body, full body), and blocking. Thanks, Brian Woodard -----Original Message----- From: Charles Richards [mailto:mojakwan@yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 11:17 AM To: Dojang Digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hyung As far as execution, the biomechanics of the Hyung more closely approximate the SHOTOKAN ... True, but for those of us that practice TSD as a Hard/Soft style, research into our GoJu brethren may be more appropriate (an Oki style I believe). 4.)(WARNING: Personal Opinion :-) ) There is a very prominent rigidity that comes through the TSD pictures that I don't get from pictures of the same kata recorded in work on the Okinawan arts. My sense is that the Okinawans are performing the kata using the whole body while the Korean version seems to be very much a function of the shoulders and upper chest. Actually, TSD is supposed to be performed using the entire body especially twisting of the waist to generate power. Maybe the lack of video/intermediate pictures leaves this out, or these guys have a more Hard/hard Kong Soo Do feel than us Hard/soft Tang Soo Do players? FWIW Charles Richards Moja Kwan TangSooDo LAUNCH - Your Yahoo! Music Experience http://launch.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 13 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 10:14:44 PDT Subject: [The_Dojang] More ITF split stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: Tom MacCallum, This letter of 'expulsion' is the last straw. For years I have minded my own business, held my own counsel and proceeded with the development of Taekwon-Do in this country. But you will not let well alone will you, and by placing my name openly on the above list on the world wide web you have in fact licensed me to respond. I now break my silence. How dare you even think of using the word 'expel' on me and all the others on the list, not to mention Master Choi , Mr. Stanley, Mr. Morningstar and others unmentioned when it is evident to all but you and the lemming-like followers of ITF Vienna, who choose not to differentiate right from wrong, that you have flagrantly violated the statutes of the ITF Constitution. Let's bring you down to earth and in doing so let the whole Taekwon-Do community know where 'bully boy' Tom MacCallum originated from, just in case your little band of followers (and they get fewer by the day) think that, like the cartoon caricature of Mr. Bean, you 'fell' from the sky. By the way, what is your background? Who taught you? To this day I still don't know as my questions to GM Rhee over the years regarding your history have always drawn a blank. The first time I clapped eyes on you was in 1975 while you were on top of a ladder painting the foyer of the newly acquired academy (Rhee's TKD Academy) in Glasgow. I enquired from Master Rhee (which is what he was at the time) as to who you were and was told that you were a 'storeman' in the RAF and had just been demobbed. You should be kissing my feet in undying gratitude for doing you the favour I am about to remind you of back in 1984, instead of perpetuating your pathetic little acts such as referring to me as 'Mr.' and scribbling my name with no title at all on my ID card at the recent farce of a Meeting in Vienna. In hindsight, I can kick myself for doing you this favour. Let's remind you of it shall we? Do you remember my act of generosity that I refer to? Or is your memory as shallow as your skin is thick. Well, let me be your hero and remind you. Let me, in reminding you, describe to the world the wretched ingratitude that is inherent in your make up. Do you recall, in the summer of 1984 in the hall of Rhee's TKD Academy, 230 Renfrew Street in Glasgow Scotland, my having to teach you, Tom Macallum, Arthur De'Silva and Teo Kwang Loh the three 4th degree patterns, Moon Moo, Ul JI and Yong Gae in preparation for our grading to fifth Dan? Why? Because Master Rhee Ki Ha, as he was at the time was upstairs in his living quarters sick beyond description in bed with septicaemia? Do you recall me performing the patterns in front of all of you who were in a row behind me mimicking my movements in Yong Gae. Do you recall me sticking my hand over my head and gesticulating with my finger to the left for movement number 30 so that you could know which direction the move was heading? On turning round to ensure that all of you were following my instructions I was amazed to find and amused, that all three of you were doing exactly the same thing with your fingers? Do you recall me pointing out to you that you should raise the height of the reverse hooking kick in Moon Moo as it was 'supposed' to be a high section kick and you were having difficulty in raising it above your kneecap? No? Well I do !!! Do you also recall your pleading poverty, as always when it comes to paying out, and saying that you could not afford the cost of the grading exam leave alone the fee for the ITF certificate? If you claim you can't well, would you believe that I can!! Can you recall, in my generosity and now in hindsight, mistake, my offering AND paying for your exam fee and certification? Well I can!! Why? Because I still have the cheque stub indicating the payment I made to Master Rhee for both our grading and certification fee. Please do me a favour and deny this!!! Incidentally, I have never received, to this day, a thank you nor a penny in repayment. Oh, I almost forgot to mention, I did settle for you supplying me with a set of Encyclopaedias in lieu in 1987 when, after three years of chasing you for the money and having the same old 'poverty' tune played to me, I decided to call it a day and settle for something rather than nothing. I recall the speed at which you produced them from the storeroom in the ITF Head Offices in Vienna gave me an inkling as to how much you had paid for it and I am positive it was not trade price. Due to my mistaken generosity in paying for your grading to 5th Dan, (and incidentally, while we are down memory lane let me remind you that my 5th Dan certificate reads B84-5-01 while yours reads B84-5-02 which indicates that you are JUNIOR to me and have always been) we have in you, a person who by the grace of the good nature and kindness of another, progressing on an upward trend, sitting there as an arrogant, egotistic, power-crazed 8th Dan telling everyone what to do and when to do it when, but for my generosity, you would not even be a 5th Dan. Fact deny it !! Following Master Rhee and I, in 1984 (I was the Chairman of the UKTA at the time with you being the General Secretary) deciding to encourage you to take up the post of Under Secretary General of the ITF, I subsequently had occasions when I was required to follow the instructions (as an officer in any organisation must) of the President of the organisation which included the writing of letters to the likes of you and General Choi in Vienna in support of whatever was the pet project of the President at the time. At the time in question it was Master Rhee's desire to put you in your place because of the uncontrollable displays of arrogance that were fast becoming your trademark. Remember the time Master Park Jung Tae had to admonish you on a street in Vienna by commanding you to come to Charyrot and Kyong ne because of your insolence to him as a Master and in this case also your immediate boss the Secretary General while you were the UNDER Secretary General? Incidentally this very much became a humorous anecdote in later years to be told and retold. Time has not changed you, nor have lessons taught you been learnt. Yet again as recently as this January in Vienna, your superior Master Choi Jung Hwa, the then ITF Secretary General had to focus your attention to answering his question by dislodging a portable tape recorder from your hand with a kick after you had once again the displayed, as a junior, the unacceptable behaviour that has become your trademark. Nothing changes does it? What further amazed all present was your bleating to the police about the incident. I mention the letter writing which as echoes the sentiments in your most recently published letter of the 22nd March 2002 about your signature and name appearing on documents when really, you should not be blamed for their contents as it was only your job?. Continue to bear this in mind as I go on to remind you of the following. In early 1988, following my decision that enough was enough with Master Rhee's modus operendi, in the UKTA, (much like Master Choi's recent reaction to the North Korean controlled ITF) I left the organisation that had given me birth in Taekwon-Do and the man I had served unswervingly for 19 years, I approached you by phone seeking help and was met with a blunt, 'you've been trying to get me out of my job so you can get lost now, you won't get any help from me.' My excuse that I had only been carrying out instructions of my President needless to say, fell on your deaf ears. No help from you despite my being in possession of the first 'plaque' in Great Britain (other than Master Rhee's) and a certificate stating that I was a 'Director of the ITF' dated September 1984. It was time, wasn't it, Tom, for you to lash out at me in the mistaken assumption that I and not Master Rhee had orchestrated those letters to you? Oh, forgive me for not referring to you as Master, Sir, as that title, as far as you are concerned sticks in my throat and I don't wish to asphyxiate myself in the process. Besides, it was the right time to wield this newly acquired toy called 'power' on someone who was and always been senior to you and in every way more successful than you will ever be. Tell you what, as a consolation, you can expel me again, in fact, make it three times if it will satisfy your little ego further. How many others in the years that you assumed the position of under secretary General in the ITF, have you alienated and told to get lost. Did you even inform General Choi your boss that an injustice was being perpetrated? Of course not! It is therefore an accurate statement to make that the people who are outside of the ITF, due to your intransigence, number in the thousands, perhaps tens of thousands. All lost to the ITF!!! And the accolade is yours and yours alone. Now, consider this scenario which is mind-boggling. You are now back in the company of, and under the direct supervision of Vice President GM Rhee, along with your sister-in-law, who in 1987, stood in the foyer of the Head Office in Vienna (much to my embarrassment) along with Arthur De Silva, in front of me and Master Park Jung Tae, being chastised by him for coming out to Vienna to (beg) take the easy option of testing for her fourth Dan when she had physically failed, back in Scotland under his criteria to pass it like all her contemporaries. She claimed an injury was preventing her performance, even in Vienna. I believe she and Arthur De'Silva both boast Master Degrees now? Mind you, ITF Vienna has a record of rewarding all and sundry and as such, it beggars belief as to how many of the remaining crop are 'really' worthy of their grades? Let's now be kind to you and comment on your churlish behaviour to all and sundry. Your drunken escapades are legendary, more so than that of Ahn Chang Ho during his lifetime for what he did for Korea, and with narrations of bouts of drunken stupor like the one by Mr. Mike Morningstar (note: I refer to him, a lowly 5th Dan as Mr. but I refer to you as Tom) of manhandling you into a taxi while you were oblivious to the world, rummaging in your jacket pocket for identity as to which hotel you were in before dumping you, unceremoniously, in your room and finally shoving your carcass further into the room with his foot so that he could close the door on you. Deny this, please, and I am sure Mr. Morningstar will be prepared to elaborate further. Testifying to this type of behaviour, I personally was on the receiving end of your drunkenness in the foyer of the Inter City Hotel Vienna this January. Let's recap. I, Master Nicholls, Wolf and Au returned at approximately 12.30 am in the early hours of Saturday the 12th to find quite a few of your cronies still at the bar drowning their sorrows. You were leaning, alone strangely, at the counter in the middle of the foyer when I approached you, hand outstretched to offer a greeting. Guess what, true to your nature, you refused to shake my hand whereupon I turned away in disgust muttering the words, 'that's the type of person he is', before entering the lift to go to my room. Master Wolf accompanied me up and then came back down with Master Nicholls whereupon your natural obnoxious behaviour went into full swing by your commencing to berate Master Nicholls in front of everyone as if he were a juvenile instead of a man in his 40's. Master Wolf, thoroughly disgusted with your loutish behaviour shouted at you, calling you a drunk and told you to go to bed. Surprise, surprise, you obeyed him by doing just that!!! A macho 8th Dan being seen off by a lowly 7th Dan? Unbelievable as it were, and even more unbelievable was your appearance in the Hotel the next day when we were checking out with your approach to me to shake my hand and to say 'no hard feelings'. I, like the diplomatically correct person that I strive to be, shook your hand. However, not so Master Tham Ying Au whose action in refusing your hand was akin to being afraid of contacting something contagious and deadly if she touched it. The object of this little anecdote demonstrates the oblivion that your brain slips into when you are drunk and the asinine behaviour you display that is totally and utterly a disgrace to the position of Secretary General of a formally Internationally recognized organisation like the one in Vienna. THOSE OF YOU STILL WITH VIENNA MUST BE PROUD OF SUCH AN UPSTANDING PERSON AS YOUR REPRESENTATIVE!! Let's return to the 'alleged' expulsions as this is the pet subject of the moment. Who in this world cares what you do or are capable of doing anymore? A man of mono syllaballistic conversations, limited intellect, void of technical knowledge and expertise, and incapable of physical performance, pontificating over subjects that you know little or nothing of, which, as recently as last year in Budapest, Hungary this fact being highlighted in front of everyone by General Choi at a seminar, when he shouted at you, and I quote: 'How dare you talk about technique when you don't know any. Just shut up and sit down and write letters when I tell you'. unquote. Deny this please, and in doing so label everyone at the seminar who heard it as liars?? You wish to expel me and others? How can you expel people who had already been long gone because of the sickness that is in you and the remaining sycophantic minority left in the ITF of North Korea? Or haven't you been abreast of events that have steamrollered along since the farce of a meeting in Vienna which prior to, had you instrumentally driving a wedge between Master Choi and his father and then orchestrating the removal from him, illegally, of the position of Secretary General? Then, shame, oh shame on you, priming someone to 'propose' you to replace him? I did notice however, the General declining to give you the position then and there. Did you have to do some arm twisting later, like threatening to pull the plug on operations and such, to be given the post? You continue to provide everyone with a laugh a minute as you pursue your silly feeble attempts to denigrate your betters. You hide behind the words 'the ITF Board' and the 'Board of Directors' etc. etc when everything is down to your misguided actions. Do you think for a moment that anyone will believe that you await orders from the 'gang of four' Tran Quen, Phap Lu, Leong Wai Meng and Benny Rivera before you issue your letters of expulsion? The obvious answer to that is a big NO. So, what is the alternative in your attempts to masquerade your demonic actions? Bide your time till there is a gathering of sorts, like the recent one in Trebon Czech. and use it as a cover to do your dirty work of expelling all that your schizophrenic demeanour commands you to. Well, the list you have just posted serves as a roll of honour for those on it, contrary to one expelled persons description of it being 'infamous'. Quite the opposite, we are, thanks to your imbecilic interpretation of the current situation, world famous. Highlighting the number of Master's you have listed, what is Vienna left with? Incidentally, why have you left out the names of numerous others? Is it because that by doing so you hope that it is going to go unnoticed, the depletion of your ranks. Lets face it, every other person has either left ITF Vienna or been 'expelled'. You are going to be one hell of a lonely man soon now that General Choi has returned to North Korea for good. What are you going to do for a living when your North Korean paymasters withdraw their pieces of silver, as reference to it is made in your letter to Chuck Seriff dated 20th February 1987 of your being salaried by North Korea? Please, deny this as well, so that I may produce the letter I have quoted from as proof!!! I tell you what, why don't you go back to teaching the 'real' and the 'true' Taekwon-Do as professed by ITF Vienna. What a brilliant idea!! However, on second thought, it won't work because I've just realized something, you're incapable of it. Sorry. Finally, as for your cancelling our certificates and qualifications, how misguided can you be. Our grades are and have been 'earned', unlike yours. Our qualifications are in the years of 'ground level' teaching experience which no one on this earth, let alone the likes of you, can remove. In any case, very soon we should be hearing of you being cancelled out by your North Korean employers. As the single biggest disaster that has befallen Taekwon-Do since its inception, 'Uncle Tom' MacCallum, You Are The Weakest Link, GOODBYE!! MASTER (to you) Raymond M.K.Choy VIII GB-8-1 Signed by General Choi Hong Hi Head of ITF Administration. P.S. Did you really think that by expelling Master Chew Teck Seong and numerous others, you could get away with not refunding the large sums of money he sent you for certificates he has not received.? You better pay everyone before the batteries of lawyers come knocking on your door. Please do feel free to respond to this and in doing so please address it to: Master Raymond M.K.Choy VIII Head of ITF Administration, ITF Head Office, 37 George Street, 4th Floor, Brampton, Toronto, Ontario L6X 1R5 CANADA --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest