Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 02:06:29 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #263 - 5 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. High kicks and forbidden arts (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. RE: High kicks and forbidden arts (Wallace, John) 3. kata's poomse's etc. (michael tomlinson) 4. Kicking Preferences (Rudy Timmerman) 5. Re: Head Kicks (Creed71963@aol.com) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 15:27:48 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] High kicks and forbidden arts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Donnla writes: > Interesting. My main reasons for doing tkd is that it's fun, I enjoy it, it > keeps me fit and develops my co-ordination. Sounds good to me. Bruce Simms wrote: > I am assuming that you are posting from Indiana rather than the Land of the > Rising Sun, yes? Yep, that's right. Japan was great, but it took me a few days to get over the jet lag! Bruce wrote about "martial arts" and made a differentiation between: arts, combat arts, martial arts, civil arts, etc. My main reservation with this discussion is that I'm not sure it really defines what we mean. Is loading a howitzer a "martial art"? Is flower arranging a "civil art"? The terminology just doesn't seem precise enough for me. Gary Pieratt wrote: > My daughter, age 13, can kick people in the head at will, in the ring. I have > no doubt that she can do so in a street fight also, providing she doesn't > slip in grass, dirt, or gravel. And Mark Gajdostik added: > In a self defense situation, no technique should be discounted. Yes, > high kicks can get you into a world of hurt, but then so can a failed throw > or lock. During scenario training, I have used head kicks. During real > fights, I have used head kicks. My response would be to Gary that high kicking can work, but that it is often not your best bet. I try to think about probabilities rather than possibilities. There are millions of things we could do in a certain situation. What I would like to do is think about what works best and is easiest to do. High kicks generally don't qualify. Mark, what was the situation in which you threw head kicks in a real fight? Would you mind talking about it? I always think we learn more from real life than from theorizing. For example, J.R. West added that: > I once saw a friend of mine from Louisiana attempt to kick another martial artist > in the head during a semi-friendly dispute in a parking lot. It seems my > friend forgot that fresh jeans just won't stretch that far, and he landed on > his backside. Lastly, Calvin Berlin wrote: > Reply: From my reading and learning of TKD, the poomse (kata) was developed > because Martial Arts were at one time banned in Korea. The poomse was > developed as a set of movements to sharpen one's skills on their own in > private. This tradition lives on today. Sorry Calvin. TKD pumse are derived from Japanese kata. Some martial arts were banned in Korea during the Japanese occupation, but the Japanese actually introduced judo and kendo, and in the last years of the occupation, karate (which was called tangsudo, kongsudo, or kweonbeop). Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Wallace, John" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] High kicks and forbidden arts Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 13:57:17 -0700 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I wonder if Calvin might be thinking of the Okinawan roots of karate, where the Japanese occupiers forbid the individual ownership of weapons - thus leading the the development of the kama, nunchaku, tonfa, etc as improvisational weapons. Certainly forms practice isn't limited to Korean, or even Far East Asian martial arts... --------------------------- Lastly, Calvin Berlin wrote: > Reply: From my reading and learning of TKD, the poomse (kata) was developed > because Martial Arts were at one time banned in Korea. The poomse was > developed as a set of movements to sharpen one's skills on their own in > private. This tradition lives on today. (Dakin wrote) Sorry Calvin. TKD pumse are derived from Japanese kata. Some martial arts were banned in Korea during the Japanese occupation, but the Japanese actually introduced judo and kendo, and in the last years of the occupation, karate (which was called tangsudo, kongsudo, or kweonbeop). [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/x-pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 22:00:26 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] kata's poomse's etc. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Guys let me say that I don't have a problem with forms at all, and I actually think they have a place in MA,, and rightfully so,, like the guys said on here about an older relative with heart or back problems etc.. and they can't go hard,,, hey kata's are great,, and I actually practiced tai chi for a while and really loved it,, I just don't think you can learn to "grapple" using a one person form or kata,,, that's all. Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:51:55 -0400 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kicking Preferences Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net JR writes: > "how come we don't ever kick above the waist?". The response I got to this > one was, "if you want to kick to the head, first break the knee and knock > your enemy to the ground, then a kick to the head is much easier". Hello JR. I'm with you all the way on this one. Although we practice high kicks on a regular basis to maintain our abilities as best we can, I have always told my students this. "If the good Lord wanted me to kick people in the head, I'm sure He would have put my legs where my arms are attached." Since knees and other "interesting" targets are only a few feet off the ground, I never bother to work harder than I need to in a real fight. Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Creed71963@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:46:46 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Head Kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 05/23/2002 3:00:55 PM EST, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: << From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 11:55:36 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Head Kicks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings All, In a self defense situation, no technique should be discounted. Yes, high kicks can get you into a world of hurt, but then so can a failed throw or lock. During scenario training, I have used head kicks. During real fights, I have used head kicks. The target was open, I had the skill, I used the technique. Same goes for shooting in for a takedown (a very non head hunting technique). Done wrong or missing could put you in a very bad position. If the target presents itself, use a technique best suited...regardless of what that is. No limits. A training partner of mine is JuJitsu trained. He thought the same way, and thought he had all the answers for someone doing high kicks to him. Some sparring and fight training sessions cured him of those ideas. Through application of my foot to his head, he now is a believer in the option of a head kick. Head kicks can work in the right situation, don't limit your SD options. Mark Gajdostik >> In the right situation, true. But it should never be the first thing that comes to mind in a self defense situation. The situation should dictate the techniques used, but headhunting should not be an option. Right, a small discussion: Under what GENERAL circumstances would you use a kick to the head? (Besides when the head's open) Craig --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest