Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 20:47:43 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #272 - 12 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: ITF Stuff (Bruce Sims) 2. Re: Re: ITF Stuff (Ray Terry) 3. Fort Collins info (Todd W Deininger) 4. Kata contained grappling techniques (Todd W Deininger) 5. The 5th International HKD Competition Games (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 6. Slickyboys (Andrew Pratt) 7. Past Korean presidents (Andrew Pratt) 8. Re: Past Korean presidents (Ray Terry) 9. more ITF (Ray Terry) 10. Taekwondo (Professor Bill Dewart) 11. Hapkido's eagle symbol (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 12. Re: Hapkido's eagle symbol (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 10:07:47 -0500 From: "Bruce Sims" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray: Thanks for sorting all that out for us. How about a couple of quick questions? ".....(5) Given #3 and #4, Master Choi formed another ITF (aka ITF Canada) given he was the legal(?) head of the ITF. Some in the original ITF went back under Major General Choi (aka ITF Vienna or ITF North Korea)....." Am I to understand that there are, then, TWO ITF and that these two organizations are mutually exclusive in that they have expelled each others members and withdrawn recognition of the rank and status of each others' members? Does it follow that former ITF members of the single organization will now be compelled to align with one organization or the other? Am I understanding correctly that the problem arises directly from the confusion between what constitutes a true multi-national organization dedicated to an activity and what is essentially a matter of patri-linear succession where such was assumed but never actually guarenteed or agreed upon by the membership? "...(6) Major General Choi is now apparently in North Korea recovering(?) from cancer. Some figure he went 'back home' to die. Let us pray that is not the case....." Why not? I would say that the Human Race and specifically the Korean people have pretty much gotten their mileage out of the man. Like so many great men, perhaps we have allowed ourselves to lean on him just a bit too much. If we are smart we will use what time he has left to emulate his efforts with him in the background to kibbutz and provide suggestions and guidance. IMVHO, though, I don't know that he is probably particularly proud of how quickly his organization has splintered, and he not even passed yet. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Re: ITF Stuff To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 11:21:55 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > "...(6) Major General Choi is now apparently in North Korea recovering(?) > from cancer. Some figure he went 'back home' to die. Let us pray that > is not the case....." > > Why not? I would say that the Human Race and specifically the Korean > people have pretty much gotten their mileage out of the man. Nice to see that your training has not hardened your heart... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Todd W Deininger" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:32:55 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Fort Collins info Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >>>With all the talk about Fort Collins, can someone let me know what's going on up there MA-wise...ideas, school recommendations, etc? I'm moving up that way in July, and I'd like to get an idea as to what's going on.>>. Darin, let me know what you are interested in and where you are moving to. I am a little south of Fort Collins, but teach HKD at the university. Todd --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Todd W Deininger" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 15:52:07 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kata contained grappling techniques Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I just read a post about a Karate seminar on Kata and it was stated that > this Kata contained grappling techniques,, no offense to anyone on here and > I'm sure it will be a fine seminar but let me just say that trying to teach > grappling in a kata is quite hilarious in my opinion,, grappling is based > on many principles that can ONLY be developed by grappling with a partner > and not by yourself doing a Kata. > Michael Tomlinson Mike, all judo kata are done two man. --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 16:38:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] The 5th International HKD Competition Games Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well I finally got the dates and location for The 5th International Hapkido Competition which will be held in Seoul at the Sungnam Gymnasium on August 10-11. For further information, please email me at: hankido2000@yahoo.com ===== Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:47:44 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Slickyboys Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sally wrote: > Charles Richards wrote: << "slickyboys" >> "slicky boy(s) was the name given to burglars and petty thieves by the Korean National Police when I lived in Korea during the mid-1970s. < FYI Just checked with some of the old fogies in the office and they too remember the term being used in reference to low-lifes. They also said that it sounded rather old and they hadn't heard the term in years. Andrew --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 08:47:44 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Past Korean presidents Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray wrote: > Would anyone care to compare & contrast the dictorial regimes of President Park Chung Hee and President Rhee Syng Man??? < Not in less than 100,000 words.... Andrew --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Past Korean presidents To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:09:05 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Would anyone care to compare & contrast the dictorial regimes of > President Park Chung Hee and President Rhee Syng Man??? > < > > Not in less than 100,000 words.... Ok. Just a URL then. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:06:42 PDT Subject: [The_Dojang] more ITF Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: May 28, 2002 A reply to Master MacCallum regarding the May 07 expulsion letter from Master Mel Steiner May 28, 2002 Master T. T. MacCallum Secretary General International Taekwon-Do Federation Draugasse 3 1210 Vienna, Austria RE: Expulsion Letter Your ref. ITF/20585/DIS/TMc Dear Master MacCallum: I am in receipt of your May 7, 2002, letter advising me that the ITF Board has recommended my expulsion from the ITF. I find the actions taken by the ITF Board contrary to the ITF Constitution, and contrary to an organization that claims to be a democratic organization and not a dictatorship. Pursuant to the Constitution: The objectives of the Federation must always take first place in any deliberations. Prime object of the disciplinary committee should always be to resolve a situation amicably rather than to mete out punishment. All consequences of loss of members must be considered carefully before the decision to expel someone is taken. Personal feelings and relationships must not influence any member of the disciplinary committee when making their decision. Attention must be paid to the legal aspects and rights of individuals during all disciplinary hearings. When conducting an investigation, care should be taken to ensure that legal action against the ITF will not result. Therefore any communication, whether by letter or spoken, should be forwarded to the board of directors for onward transmission. They must not be communicated directly, to those involved, by the disciplinary committee. Individuals must be given every opportunity to defend themselves and to state their case, whether in person or in writing. Only when the disciplinary committee is satisfied that it has done everything reasonably possible to allow this may it give a decision against an individual when he has refused, or declined to communicate about it. Requests, in writing, made to individuals for information must be sent by recorded delivery. It is evident by the Federation's actions, that the prime objective to resolve this situation was not taken in my case, since no hearing took place, not to mention that it appears that the Congress did not meet to ratify my expulsion. This only means that certain individuals, based on their personal feelings, made decisions contrary to the rules and regulations as set forth in the Constitution. I was not given any opportunity to defend myself. I was not able to state my case. There was no attempt to resolve the situation. Indeed, I was not even informed of what actions I have taken that warrant my expulsion. My rights were not taken into account in any way. Paragraph 5 #2 of the Constitution states: "Affiliated members will be all officially founded, National TKD Organizations which use the methods and techniques developed by the Founder of TKD, Gen. Choi Hong Hi. TKD organizations of all countries of the world may acquire membership, irrespective of race, religion or nationality of their members." Consequently, this qualifies as members pretty much any organization that fits this description, and I most certainly qualify as a member. Paragraph 7 #2 of the Constitution states that: "The Congress may expel a member from the Federation by majority resolution if it has violated the statutes or the interests of the Federation." Please advise, (i) what statute(s) or interest(s) of the Federation I violated; (ii) when Congress convened to discuss these alleged violations; (iii) who was present at that meeting; (iv) what vote was taken; (v) who voted; and (vi) what steps were taken to give me an opportunity to defend myself or state my position. Paragraph 7 #3 of the Constitution states that: "The Board may also expel a member because of other violations of the membership obligations. However, this expulsion is subject to subsequent ratification on the part of the Congress. In the meantime membership is suspended." Your letter appears to indicate that the Board is the one that has taken the action to expel me; however, it also appears to indicate that the action taken is a permanent one, (an expulsion, not suspension), nor is there any indication that the Board's actions have been ratified by the Congress. Please advise (i) when the Board met; (ii) who was present; and (iii) when the expulsion was ratified. Paragraph 18 of the Constitution provides: - All disputes arising from the Federation relationship will be decided by the arbitration tribunal. - It consists of one representative each of three, affiliated, Federation members. Each party to the dispute will have to name one representative as umpire in a period of 7 days to the Board of Directors. Chairman of the Arbitration tribunal will be the Chairman of the Disciplinary Committee. - The Arbitration Tribunal will arrive at its best knowledge and belief. Its decisions are Federation internal and final. Please advise when the Arbitration Tribunal met, who was a member of the Tribunal, and why I was not allowed to have representation? If the Tribunal has not met, I request the formation and meeting of the Tribunal in order for my case to be heard, not only by those concerned, but by the members of the media as well, at which time all the details of this and other events will be made public. Section II of the Disciplinary Rules and Regulations, Article 7 regarding Suspension states: "Automatic suspension will come into being when a member has been reported to the disciplinary committee for breach of regulations." Automatic suspension could be because: (a) The board of directors has submitted a case against an affiliated member for investigation. In all the above cases of automatic suspension by the ITF, the member must be informed by the ITF, in writing, of this suspension at the same time as the case may be submitted to the disciplinary committee. Please provide me with copies of all charges as to the breach in regulations as submitted to the disciplinary committee, as well as who was present at the meeting, and the minutes of the meeting. Article 12 requires that Congress ratify an expulsion. Please advise when the Congress ratified my personal expulsion and how the votes were cast by the country. Finally, the Condensed Encyclopedia regarding ideal instructor provides: Soldiers are as strong as the general who leads them, and, in like manner, students can only excel under an excellent instructor. We cannot expect a bamboo to grow in a field of reeds, nor can we expect to find an outstanding pupil under an unqualified teacher. Such an instructor must possess the following qualities: 1. Strong moral and ethical standards. 2. Clear outlook and philosophy in life. 3. Responsible attitude as an instructor. 4. Scientific mind in matters of technique. 5. Knowledge of the vital spots of human anatomy. 6. Unshakable integrity in political and financial dealings. 7. Dedication to spread the art of TKD throughout the world. 8. One who gains confidence from his seniors, is trusted by his fellow instructors, and is respected by his juniors. Seems to me, that out of these 8 important points, 4 of the most important ones #1, #3, #6, #8, are not being followed by many of the seniors and officers in the ITF Vienna, as exemplified by their actions taken especially recently. It is a sad day when the philosophy in the encyclopedia are only words on paper and meaningless to the Grandmasters and Masters who are supposed to exemplify and live by these principles. How can this be a Democratically run organization when only the few not only make all of the decisions but get all of the privileges and benefits as well? Only in a dictatorship are decisions made by the few which affect the many, without recourse from the many. The actions of the Federation certainly have not served the best interest of their members as specified in Paragraph 3 purpose in that it has received pecuniary gains and profit from its members, has not encouraged moral and cultural education as exemplified by improper behavior by many in high position, nor international respect and goodwill, much less helped build a better more peaceful world. The Federation hardly ever assisted, recognized, nor encouraged the affiliated organizations nor furnished services and guidance to every individual, group, or body for their interest and only did so if it was in the Federation's best interest. I request that the Federation act in compliance with the Constitution, the Disciplinary Rules and the precepts set forth by the General in the Encyclopedia. I do not accept the expulsion from you or the Vienna ITF Board since neither you nor the Board had the legal right or reason to do so. Further legal action will be taken against you and the ITF if you continue to act contrary to the members' rights and rules. I await your response. Sincerely, Master Mel Steiner VII Dan --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 18:32:55 -0700 From: Professor Bill Dewart To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings Everyone: A couple of important announcements for the AAU Taekwondo Program as well as ATAMA members. On Saturday, June 15th at the French American International School we will be hosting a Black Belt Dan Certification Testing which will run from 12:30 to 4:30 P.M. The school is at 151 Oak St. (between Gough & Franklin Sts.), S.F., CA 94117. Participants can receive AAU, WTF and ATAMA Certification at this event. Each individual can choose which certification(s) he or she wants. If you are interested in participating please contact me at (415)864-4827 and I will let you know the particulars. On Sunday, June 23rd I will be hosting Prof. Rick Clark at Grandmaster Rick Alemany's school at 1319 20th Ave.(off of Irving), in the Sunset District of S.F. Prof. Clark has two books published on pressure points and he is the individual who originally introduced me to the martial arts applications of acupuncture. He is a great martial arts instructor but his jokes still need some work! The seminar will run from 1 to 5 P.M. on the 23rd and this will be a unique opportunity to work with a great instructor. Please let your friends and fellow students know abouut this seminar. Again if you are interested please call me for the details. Finally, on the weekend of Aug. 16th, 17th & 18th I will be hosting a Training and Meditation Retreat at the Taungpulu Kaba-Aye Budhist Monastery in the Santa Cruz Mountains. The cost of this unique training opportunity is only $275 for the weekend. We will be working on feeling and developing ones ki or chi and how to project it through the movements of our forms. We will work on pressure points, knife defense techniques, forms sparring techniques and hapkido type techniques. All meals will be included but there is only room for 40 participants. It will be a very different training experience for most of you but working on internal power is extremely important to compliment your external power. If you are interested in participating, I will be sending out information packages to the schools so you can wait for that or call me and I will give you the details. There is lots going on this summer so I will look forward to working with all of you. Peace. Yours in Taekwondo, Bill Dewart --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 19:40:57 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido's eagle symbol Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not sure if this has been asked before on the list, but I was wondering what the Hapkido eagle symbol represents. Thanks! ===== Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido's eagle symbol To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 29 May 2002 21:24:34 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Not sure if this has been asked before on the list, > but I was wondering what the Hapkido eagle symbol > represents. Thanks! Date: Tue, 08 Aug 2000 19:32:36 PDT Subject: the_dojang: Hapkido eagle Just got off the telephone with Hapkido GM JI Han-jae. It had been a couple months since I last had a chance to chat with him. I always like to get one little piece of history out of him each time we chat... So this time I asked when the eagle first started being used as a logo for Hapkido. He indicated that he was the first to use the eagle in a Hapkido logo, and this occured in 1967. He said that he decided on the flying eagle catching the arrow given (1) [to him] the eagle is the king of birds, (2) flying depicts freedom and being free, and (3) catching the arrow indicates that the weapon that was used to attack has been countered and disabled. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest