Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 06:36:16 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #282 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Thanks for the Help!! (Virginia schools) (Emactkd@aol.com) 2. Re: full-contact sparring (Donnla Nic Gearailt) 3. Sparring (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 4. RE: More Hyung Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 5. What is a Grand Master? (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 6. RE: Sparring Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. Re: sparring as testing requirement (Donnla Nic Gearailt) 8. RE: Sparring (Hay, Pat) 9. Re: Chong Min Lee (FirstPe315@aol.com) 10. Korean Reference Web Sites (Kim Farral) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Emactkd@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 00:36:26 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Thanks for the Help!! (Virginia schools) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thanks Dave, and Charles, and Andy. It's good to have help. What a great list! When you come to New Orleans (and sooner or later everyone does), be sure to holler! Rick Foley --__--__-- Message: 2 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:19:20 +0100 From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: full-contact sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Message: 8 >From: Ray Terry >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Sparring >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2002 7:53:17 PDT >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > >Perhaps, but I personally believe full-contact sparring contains aspects that >are beneficial to the student, assuming they survive. :) e.g feel the >rush of adrenaline and what it can do to you and your technique, Interesting - I guess this is why people try lots of interesting techniques when sparring in class but in tournaments seem to resort to slugging at each other with turning kicks (me included). Is this why one gets tired more quickly in a competitive situation too? Donnla. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Language Technology Group, Division of Informatics Research Assistant 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, Scotland. tel: +44-131-6504656 http://www.iccs.informatics.ed.ac.uk/~donnlan/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 08:44:12 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I've been reading the threads on sparring and thought I'd weigh in. It's not about sports. It's not about cleaning your partner's clock. Sparring is not real street fighting - if it were, the school would go out of business for lack of students! Too many injuries. Sparring in our curriculum is an exercise of changing offense to defense and vice versa. It is self-revealing. It's about learning how you personally deal with pressure. It will tell your body reacts and whether you're developing muscle memory to deal with an attack. It's not about "who's better than whom". The martial arts are about your own discovery. The same thought holds for those who ask about "should someone be awarded a blackbelt if...." Should sparring be required? Yes - in class. You have to be able to demonstrate in a controlled (hopefully) environment that the techniques you're learning can work for you, personally, and which ones work better for you than others. I don't, however, feel that a student should be required to spar in a tournament setting. Why? Because Murphy's Law says that student you coaxed into trying it will get matched up with "ol' blood & guts" who throws out all semblance of martial art when the bout starts and reverts to some form of street fight. That's fine at the Dan level. A Dan should be able to handle that guy. Cliff Vaught Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:27:09 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: More Hyung Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: "....Some Hapkido arts have hyung and others do not. Sun Moo Kwan Hapkido also has Hyungs. This thread can be found at length by searching the digest archives. Cheers to Master Terry for the many resources he offers....." Thanks for the info. I need to check into that material as well. I wanted to tell Tom that I can't seem to find any websites that publish information on Hapkido hyung. Obviously the Kuk Sool people have their training manuals which have an examination of their forms. GM Myung (WHF) had published a book of his hyung and (I think) has republished his Yon Mu Kwan material reorganized into rank-specific manuals each of which includes one of his hyung. I think this begs another question and that is that it is not enough to ask if Hapkido has hyung, but also to identify the origins of those hyung. Certainly this is the stuff of which arguements is made and I don't advocate this to support some position of whose art is more "authentic". Rather, I believe that hyung embody the sense of how a particular style or art defines the use of the person to accomplish a particular goal. Personally I don't think it is enough to simply know how to move the body, but one needs to know the belief system behind how people imagined that the person works as they accomplish their goal. If you compare the relatively modern hyung of GM Myungs' system, its easy to identify a great many moves, stances and techniques which rely heavily on Japanese/TKD background. On the otherhand, the Kuk Sool hyung have a number of moves and techniques which are found readily in both Eagle Claw and Praying Mantis. I know it is sometimes annoying for bookworms like me to be always asking where stuff came from, but perhaps this holds the key to our arts' future, more so than even what we are doing in the here&now. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 09:33:17 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] What is a Grand Master? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I know that sounds like a really dumb question coming from some white belt, but I'm actually an E Dan in the U.S. Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, a student of martial arts for 9 years. I'm also a student of Soo Bahk Do/Tang Soo Do history and I've seen, in that history, senior Dans split away and either be "elected" Grandmaster or appoint themselves. Sometimes these are students with 10-15 years of martial arts training. I've seen in a recent Tae Kwon Do Times a husband/wife grandmaster team. Isn't that a contradiction in terms? I've seen reference to a "supreme" grandmaster too. I thought that a grandmaster is the senior most martial artist in a particular style or someone who originates a style. Maybe that was traditional. Now it looks like anyone who starts an independent school becomes one. So, what constitutes someone being a "Grandmaster"? Soo Bahk!! Cliff Vaught --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 07:49:31 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sparring Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Laurie: "....In my new school, we HAVE to spar, unless we have an injury or something. The way I got over the fear is, I just got in there and sparred. I did a lot of "running" at first, but I told myself that this is bull s**t. If I got in a real fight, I'd be dead. So I started fighting back. Now I have no fear of getting hit. I can take full contact hits to the "gear". Even with the gear on, ya can still "feel" the hit, and it doesn't bother me now. I walk away with bruises, but the training is worth it......" I ask forgiveness from those who know what I am about to ask as I have raised this question before and--- yes I know--- it sounds like I am splitting hairs. All the same I think you are a good person to ask given the experience you related. When most people are asked about why they are averse to sparring the response seems to be that they are not averse to sparring but to conflict in general. I have always been a bit suspicious of this response. I wonder if the real answer has more to do with having ones' personal space violated, and perhaps having inadequate skills to deal with that resulting in feelings of helplessness which are not always addressed by teachers. Even though its been years ago let me give you an example from my own experience. When I had come back from overseas, one of the first things I did when I was discharged was enroll in University and in that small town was a Shudokan Karate school. Sparring included both competitive sparring as well as self-defense drills like "walk the street" and "bull in the ring". From the very first day I HATED sparring. I couldn't get used to the idea of someone hitting me, or jumping on me from behind without me being able to "cut-loose" on the guy. The idea of disciplined or measured response seemed contrived and unrealisitic. As I built up my skill levels I came to a kind of appreciation of sparrings' role in training but I am guessing that at some level this experience still played a big part in my moving on to Hapkido. I share all of this because I think that I had a particularly good Shudokan teacher at the time who took time to work with me on this. It also sounds like you seemed to have reconciled like feelings for yourself. I wonder what happens to folks whose teachers don't take the time to work with these issues. How much did you, yourself, have to sort this out and how much did your teacher help you? Inquiring minds want to know. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 12:22:24 +0100 From: Donnla Nic Gearailt Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: sparring as testing requirement Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Message: 3 >From: "Anne Skjold" >To: >Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 11:07:25 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: BB (Sparring as a requirement) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >My question/opinion on this matter is why if your school is not 'sport' >oriented, why would sparring even be a requirement? >My school is not 'sport' orientated, although it is required to learn >sparring techniques and sparring series' we are not required to spar to >attainour BB, our instructors pphilosphy is that if you do everything well >in an attack situation you will be able to "spar'. >I do spar in tournaments etc. but one of my peers, doesnot and never has and >probally never will. >I do not believe the essesnce of a BB or a martial "art" is to be profient >in the act of sparring or as some refer to it controlled fighting. > >Respectfully, >Anne >1st Dan, WTF TKD I think a lot of schools over here in the UK need to test students on sparring as it is a BTCB requirement for affiliation/recognition/whatever. Correct me on this if I'm wrong. (BTW I like sparring, it's fuuuuuun! Although my shins hurt this morning.) Donnla. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Donnla Nic Gearailt Language Technology Group, Division of Informatics Research Assistant 2 Buccleuch Place, Edinburgh EH8 9LW, Scotland. tel: +44-131-6504656 http://www.iccs.informatics.ed.ac.uk/~donnlan/ --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Hay, Pat" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 11:27:17 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Sparring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<<<< Considering that sparring is fake fighting and it does not come close to a street fight, why would you want to emphasize it? There are some benefits to it, but only as a training mechanism and not as a measuring device for fighting ability. It will only train you to be a good sparring person. If that's what you want to develop, go for it.>>>>> Even though sparring is "fake fighting" it has many benefits if kept in perspective. Feeling contact of a blow or block. Dealing with a dynamic situation - countering/blocking an unexpected technique. Thinking about what to do next on the fly (improvisation), etc. Hopefully most of us are not going around getting into street fights. So sparring is the best thing going! Patrick Hay 1st Dan TKD --__--__-- Message: 9 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 19:14:36 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chong Min Lee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List Members: Does anybody know anything about a gentlemen named Chong Min Lee from New Jersey. As far as I know, he is the President of the American Hapkido Association and the U.S. Representative for the Korea Hapkido Association. Let me know what you may know about him or if you have trained with him. Sincerely, J --__--__-- Message: 10 From: "Kim Farral" To: "the_dojang" Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:21:20 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Reference Web Sites Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IF anyone is interested...Here are some Very Good Korean Reference Sites for Tae Kwon Do Plus...the first two being the better of them...but all of them have some very good reference material for language, history, customs, commands, terminology, etc... http://dic.impact.pe.kr/ecmaster-cgi/srch.cgi?bool=dic&word=yes&kwd=Hidden http://www.sigmainstitute.com/koreanonline/dictionary.shtml http://www.ahnstkd.com/korean.htm http://www.ccsu.edu/karate/kor_2.html http://www.wkimtkd.com/Terminology2.htm http://www.omaccanada.com/resources/korean.asp http://www.cjk.org/cjk/samples/korname.htm#given The One and Only...            Tink  --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest