Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 02:53:18 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #290 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Sparring & Fighting (FirstPe315@aol.com) 2. Dan Promotions (Charles Richards) 3. Response to MR. Jose in Re: Pearl Video (Prince Loeffler) 4. Re: Ethical Dilemma: Please give me advice (Piotr Bernat) 5. Pearl video (CKCtaekwon@cs.com) 6. MA and Daniel Pearl (Neal Konecky) 7. Ethical Dilemma (Randall Sexton) 8. Tourist traps (Andrew Pratt) 9. Sparring stuff (Laurie S.) 10. Re: Ethical Dilemma (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Ethical Dilemma: Please give me advice (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 11:44:27 -0400 From: FirstPe315@aol.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring & Fighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated Tue, 4 Jun 2002 5:13:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: Randall: >> Considering that sparring is fake fighting and it does not come close to a > street fight, why would you want to emphasize it? There are some benefits to > it, but only as a training mechanism and not as a measuring device for > fighting ability. It will only train you to be a good > sparring person. If > that's what you want to develop, go for it.>> So what are you saying. This person may be afraid to spar, but in a real-life combat situation there may be no problem?? Give me a break. Sparring is not street-fighting, well that's true. But it somebody can't even spar, he sure as hell can't fight in a real-life situation. J --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:35:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Dan Promotions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> What Dan Grade do you think a person should hold before becoming an instructor? Especially if they have their own school and are not working under someone? Also how can a 1st Dan open a school and be expected to be taken seriously? From my limited understanding I thought you had to be at least a 2nd Dan to promote someone to 1st Dan. <> Dear Danny, There are several "rules" of thumb out there many doccummented and fairly consistent from one NGB to another. Of course they do have their exceptions. Here goes 1. The Dan promoter should be 2 Dan levels higher than the highest person testing. So you would need to be a 2nd Dan to promote your student to CDB/1st Gup (IMHO) and a 3rd Dan to promote your student to Black-belt. 2. The Dan promoter should be 1 Dan level higher than the highest person testing. So you would need to be a 1st Dan to promote your student to CDB/1st Gup (IMHO) and a 2nd Dan to promote your student to Black-belt. 3. Only a Master can promote someone to black-belt plus rule 1 above so a 6th Dan would need to be present to make a 4th Dan promotion. 4. Unwritten rule that it takes a total of 7 Dan levels on the panel of a Dan test. Could be a 4th Dan and 3rd or say 1 7th Dan, or if you are only 2nd Dan it could be 3 2nd Dans and a 1st Dan (although IMHO a first Dan can call commands and demonstrate at a Dan test but should not grade). Again IMHO a senior 2nd Dan could be invited to grade on a Dan test say as part of their evaluation for 3rd Dan. 5. Only a grand-master can make a 4th/5th Dan promotion to Master. 6. All Dan promotions are executed by the grand/head master of the kwan/NGB and studio head recommend, and a regional Master may be given permission to conduct a 1st-3rd Dan. So if you follow rule #6 above a 1st Dan could be the owner of an independent school and rely on his NGB for Dan promotions until he reaches 3rd Dan (rule 1 above). Remember if this is a new school the owner (with training) will be 2nd Dan before his first student tests to black-belt. The only awkward situation that might come about would be testing for 3rd Dan at your student's 2nd Dan test. But with mature adults this is not an issue. I even know of some folks that purchased a school just before their BB test and a 2nd Dan stayed on as Head Instructor (He likes to teach and hates to manage, they are good managers and love martial arts). OK so here's my opinion. To run your own school as a new BB or even 2nd Dan you will need some structured mentoring. 1. You will need someone like EFC/NAPMA/Andrew Wood/Steven Oliver to get sound business and procedure ideas from. If you stay affiliated with an NGB they usually will provide curriculum, test forms, gup certificates, for a nominal fee. This could be AAU, AKAI, USKMAF or a more style specific NGB like ITF, WTSDA, ATA, etc. 2. You will need a Master to call your instructor for several reasons. You need to continue to train and have a way to earn a higher Dan ranking. If you follow most of the options above, someone will need to conduct your Dan testings until you reach say 2nd or 3rd Dan. So what at what level. For those who care to know this is how I feel about the subject. 2nd Gup Red Belts - Adults should be able to teach class given a "do this" lesson plan. Youth should be able to lead warm-ups and basics. 1st Dan - Class instructor should be able to teach class. For me the only reason to award a Poom/Jr. BB is this person is not capable of teaching but an extremely talent technician and dedicated martial artist (say an 8yo with 4 years of 4+ days/week training). A Cho Dan is qualified to sit on a gup testing panel. If you compete, a Cho Dan should be able to be a corner judge. 2nd Dan - Head instructor should be able to run one of your programs (YMCA or after school club, kids classes, adult classes). A second Dan could sit on a Dan exam panel. 3rd Dan - Chief instructor should be able to run a school, conduct a gup test, grade on a Dan test, center referee at a tournament. IMHO at least 16yo and preferable 18yo. 4th Dan - Master Instructor should be able to conduct a Dan test, arbitrate at a tournament, be 21 yo, run a school separate or in conjunction with an NGB. As usual that's the long way of saying a person should be 3rd or 4th Dan before they try to run a school on their own without a structured support system. Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards Moja Kwan TangSooDo Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 09:52:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Prince Loeffler To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Response to MR. Jose in Re: Pearl Video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <<>>> OUT OF THE LURK MODE: morbid voyeurism ? Ever Heard Of Reality Mr. Jose ! I personally did not view the video, However as Master Ray Terry's disclaimer indicated, it was meant for those interest in understanding the harsh reality of life. As an instructor, you NEVER ever THINK never ! Martial Arts gives you a choice or a chance for SURVIVAL. A recent example was Jeremy Glick, He gave his life so that the casualty would be less. Martial Arts trains you to have an ability to sense danger. Mr Pearl was in a state of Helplessness. We train so that we can never be in that situation. Yes, Mr. Jose there are average martial artist...and as far as I am concern I do not know what's average about them..... Have you heard of the Bushido Mr Jose ? Based on your statement above, I don't think so...so let me brief you a bit. A samurai accepts death as part of life. HE know that HE IS going to die anyway, How he dies in battle with honor is what makes life worth living. Overall, Yes Mr. Jose ! Martial Arts WOULD HAVE GIVEN ! Daniel Pearl A CHANCE OF survival ! Thank you, Now I have to take another nap, got a headache again.... Prince Yours Truly Prince Loeffler Admission Director International Jidokwan Federation www.Jidokwan.net Sign-up for Video Highlights of 2002 FIFA World Cup --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Piotr Bernat To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 22:03:58 +0200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Ethical Dilemma: Please give me advice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I need some sound advice. Here is the situation: (...) > THE DILEMMA: What is the proper dojang etiquette for this > situation? I plan to talk with the Master Instructor AND my current > head instructor about this. I do NOT want to offend either of them. I > would like to continue in my current school, as well as work out with > my Master Instructor. I think that you just gave yourself the best answer. The best way to handle the situation is in my opinion to talk with both instructors, maybe even to arrange a meeting with both of them. I have two students in my school who also train in Kyokushinkai Karate simultaneously. They are brothers, one of them is 4th Kyu and the other 6th Kyu, with some years of experience in Karate. They came to me couple of months ago and I suggested them to join my competition class, where they had some students of similar age and experience. As they quickly realized, during the sparring classes, that they have a lot to learn to match our students capabilities, they joined our club, while at the same time, remaining Kyokushinkai members. I feel personally that for their development, it would be best to concentrate on one style (TKD preferably ;), but never told him that they have to choose. They seem to be happy with what they do, and they are among the most dedicated students. And let`s keep it that way... :) Regards -- Piotr Bernat dantaekwondo@lublin.home.pl http://www.taekwondo.prv.pl --__--__-- Message: 5 From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:14:33 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Pearl video Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net would someone please post the web address of the Pearls video. I missed it and would like to see it. In a message dated 6/9/02 12:27:22 PM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Personally I think martial arts training would have helped Mr. Pearl in > Gary Pieratt --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 15:45:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Neal Konecky To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MA and Daniel Pearl Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net The only way I can respond to this query is to ask for a definition of help. If you are asking whether it would have helped him survive against vastly superior numbers with better weapons, probably not. On the other hand, did MA help the passengers on the flight that was put into the ground in PA on September 11? What about the people that were at the White House or Capitol Building or anyother intended target? Did MA help then? Maybe the question just comes down to how you want to live and how you want to die. I prefer not to be slaughtered like a sheep because I have no other tools. I would rather die defending myself and standing up for something I believe in. Minimum, I want the choice. Neal Konecky > > > Do you really think martial arts training would have > helped Mr. Pearl in this > > situation? Do you really think that the average and > even far above average > martial artist could have successfully defended him > or herself against these > armed terrorists who significantly outnumbered the > victim? With all respect, > > the statement above strikes me as naive and should > not be used as > justification for what I can only see as morbid > voyeurism. I frankly have no > > interest in viewing this video. Jose' > > ===== "A general Dissolution of Principles and Manners will more surely overthrow the Liberties of America than the whole force of the Common Enemy" Samuel Adams Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 18:32:39 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Ethical Dilemma Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Be sincerely honest with them both and you can't go too far wrong. Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Andrew Pratt" To: "dojang" Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 10:17:31 +0900 Subject: [The_Dojang] Tourist traps Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net All, FYI Anthony recently wrote: > On Memorial Day a siren was not heard nationwide, it was only audible if you were near where it sounds. Most of those who were not required to work (despite it being a national holiday) stayed at home and slept or watched the World Cup on TV. About 40 or 50% of houses displayed a Korean flag - the real traditional response to a holiday. < I noticed far fewer flags this year. I don't even remember being woken up early in the morning by the gate guard reminding us to put our flags out. In previous years, my wife has put a flag out but she didn't this year. > As for Insa-Dong, the descriptions were quite accurate but failed to mention two things. The quality of the goods in this area is sometimes higher than places like Itaewon or Myung-Dong but the prices always are. The largest and most visible coffee/tea spot in "traditional Insa-Dong" is a gigantic Starbucks, followed by the 7-11. < My senior colleague, and long time Korean ex-pat (>20 years), bemoans the destruction of 'old Seoul.' He is of the opinion that Asians have yet to develop an appreciation of the historical unless it is high art. He laments that despite the supposed preservation of Insa-dong, many of the old buildings, particularly the traditional residential properties (called hannuks) are being torn down and replaced by modern multi-story concrete monstrosities. There isn't much left of 'old Seoul' and what remains is rapidly being lost. The road has never struck me as being particularly exciting and even in its modern pedestrianised state still does not embody a sense of 'old Seoul.' Just my opinion, > Korea is more like home than it seems on the surface. I find that the really alien stuff is found almost exclusively in interpersonal relations. < Ooo-er, would you like to rephrase that???? ;-) Andrew --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Laurie S." To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 22:13:05 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Sparring stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce wrote: <<<>>> Your welcome, Bruce. What my instructor (TKD) did was have my partner first "move in" on me (quickly ..... rushing) to get me used to not "flinching". Then he had them kick and punch at me (no contact) and told me not to back up or "run". Then he moved to light contact once I didn't flinch. He had my partner "tap" me, and he told me to do certain drills (block punch, block kick, ect). Once I got good at that (without backing up) and I actually "moved in" on my partner, he had me do full contact. One strike at a time. Then he had my partner hit me with a flurry of stuff. Then he had me doing drills and free sparring at full contact. I actually didn't realize that I was fighting full contact, because I was so worried about the drills and fighting off my partner. My instructor had to "tell" me that I was fighting full contact. I suprised myself. He was a great help. Danny wrote: <<<>>> Thank you :o) Laurie high yellow belt TKD (5th gup TSD) _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ethical Dilemma To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:01:34 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Be sincerely honest with them both and you can't go too far wrong. > > Randall Sexton > www.laughinghara.com Mr. Sexton, I'd be careful if I were you. A few more comments like the above and your hard earned rep may be ruined for life... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Ethical Dilemma: Please give me advice To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sun, 09 Jun 2002 21:41:59 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > THE DILEMMA: What is the proper dojang etiquette for this situation? > I plan to talk with the Master Instructor AND my current head instructor > about this. I do NOT want to offend either of them. I would like to > continue in my current school, as well as work out with my Master Instructor. > I would like to continue in my current school with rank advancement, as well > as work out with the Master. Seems like a reasonable approach, assuming both instructors are ok with it. Hopefully they will be. A problem could enter in if they teach differently, e.g. do a certain block or form one way instead of another way, but hopefully that won't be an issue. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest