Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:12:29 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #291 - 11 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Parks & Rec Martial Arts Programs (TNTcombatives@aol.com) 2. Video Review (ABurrese@aol.com) 3. Slickey boys (Teressa) 4. Re: World cup (Klaas Barends) 5. RE: Rank Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 6. Re: Instructor Rank (Bouloutian, Andy (CAP, GEFA)) 7. Korean Term (Morgan James) 8. Re: Tourist traps (Ray Terry) 9. Re: Korean Term (Ray Terry) 10. MunMak GiCheon Center (Teressa) 11. Dilemma...Not Really (Farral, Kim) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: TNTcombatives@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 01:10:42 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Parks & Rec Martial Arts Programs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Greetings all, I was asked recently if I would be willing to start up a MA program for the city's (my employer) parks & rec program. I have previously owned and operated a regular TKD school, but would like the input of those distinguished DD members who currently operate their classes through a parks & rec. Pitfalls, advice, cautions, start up tips, costs, tuition rates etc.....feel free to reply off list if you want. I'm sure I could figure it out, but would rather not reinvent the wheel. Take Care, Mark Gajdostik. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: ABurrese@aol.com Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 01:12:40 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Video Review Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just added a review of Restraint and Control Strategies with Loren Christensen to my web site. You can check it out at: http://www.burrese.com/Reviews/Restraint_Control.html Yours in Training, Alain Burrese www.burrese.com --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:13:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Teressa To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Slickey boys Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Patrick, I think that your personal filters have caused you to misunderstand or miss some of my points. That's fine, we're different. If you think I'm self-righteous, that's fine too. I never said I was perfect. Of course the homeowner was upset. But the homeowner has rules to follow too. The thief had already rejected the rules of society and law and IMHO you cannot make a defendable argument on his behalf. I hope for your sake or the sake of someone you love that you never get caught rejecting the rules of society. Or maybe I do, then you would know what it feels like, and have more compassion. For both sides. Teressa, the Self-Righteous Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:12:32 +0200 From: Klaas Barends To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: World cup Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > It is historical irony that the US-Korea World Cup match on > June 10 is the same date 131 years ago that the US first set foot > on Korean soil, militarily, starting the three-day battle of > the so-called 'Shinmiyangyo'. Hopefully, the outcome of > this 'battle' is more amicable. (http://www.shinmiyangyo.org) I think many people also missed the irony in the Japan vs. Russia match. Japan beated Russia with 1-0, thus winning for the first time a world cup match. The first time a non-western country ever beated a westen one was in 1905 (Japan beating Russia). I hope Korea wins today (because their coach is a dutchman), but I see team USA just scored :( What has this got to do with martial arts? nothing, but who cares? -- kind regards, Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 07:51:12 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Rank Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Minisara: "...... What is the proper dojang etiquette for this situation? I plan to talk with the Master Instructor AND my current head instructor about this. I do NOT want to offend either of them. I would like to continue in my current school, as well as work out with my Master Instructor. I would like to continue in my current school with rank advancement, as well as work out with the Master......" I am addressing this response to you but in some ways I also think what I am about to say could apply to the individual who wrote earlier wondering at what level ("dan") a person could begin teaching or perhaps be taken seriously as a teacher. IMVHO I think it would do well for both you AND the other person to step back a bit and take a couple of deep breathes. Both of you are putting just a tad too much weight on rank and standing. Had either of you folks approached the issues you raised with a little clearer eyes and a bit less martial romantic illusions I think you could have answered your questions for yourself. Please don't hear this as a put-down or a criticism. What I am asking is that you and quite a few other people begin to appreciate rank and standing as a CONVENIENCE rather than a hard and fast offices. By this I mean, for example, that in US society we have various roles and agencies that people assume or are elected to but none of this guarentees competence at what they do. In the military there are a wide range of ranks but attaining one of those ranks in no way guarentees that the person is worthy of respect or that they are able to discharge their duites well. As regards your question, do yourself a favor and stop trying to draw a neat 1:1 correllation between titles and rank. The relationship between a teacher ands student is a very personal one and not all the black cotton in the world will make respect happen if its not warrented or dissuade respect if it is merited. If a teacher has earned your regard what follows is the natural cordiality one would expect. Others watching from the outside will label that ettiquette. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Bouloutian, Andy (CAP, GEFA)" To: "'DOJANG DIGEST'" Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:06:40 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Instructor Rank Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Instructors have a huge responsiblity in that both kids and adults look to them for leadership. Instructors can either build students up or knock them down mentally. Students that are more timid need to be built up and students that are too aggressive or cocky need to be brought down. Further, different people learn differently so they need to have it presented differently. Then of course you have stiff and strong versus the faster and weaker.....an instructor needs to know how to develop each of their strengths while still developing their weakness. Then of course the instructor should have a sound moral base so they dont take advantage of the students of the opposite sex and if the school is full time school he will have to learn business skills. Enough of my ranting...... anyone opening a school should have more than 10 years experience and 3rd dans may do alright but I think really should be 4th dan or above. Andy Bouloutian --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Morgan James To: 'Dojang Digest' Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 08:42:01 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Term Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm still looking for the meaning of the Korean term "Utz". My instructor used to make us use this term when we were doing 1 and 3-step sparring. The person throwing the punch used to say "Utz" as in "Are you ready?". When the defender was ready he would also reply with "Utz" as in "Yes, I am. Throw the punch." On the World Tae Kwon Do Association website under the Summer Camp slideshow section there is a picture with the phrase "As the Utz is sounded at reverse punch, its echo reverberates throughout the valley." So, now I'm confused on it's real meaning. Thanks. James GTKDA --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tourist traps To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 7:38:25 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > My senior colleague, and long time Korean ex-pat (>20 years), bemoans the > destruction of 'old Seoul.' He is of the opinion that Asians have yet to > develop an appreciation of the historical unless it is high art. He laments > that despite the supposed preservation of Insa-dong, many of the old > buildings, particularly the traditional residential properties (called > hannuks) are being torn down and replaced by modern multi-story concrete > monstrosities. There isn't much left of 'old Seoul' and what remains is > rapidly being lost. How about some of other larger cities in Korea? e.g. Busan, Inchon... Do they still retain that traditional flavor? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Korean Term To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 8:10:35 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm still looking for the meaning of the Korean term "Utz". My instructor > used to make us use this term when we were doing 1 and 3-step sparring. The > person throwing the punch used to say "Utz" as in "Are you ready?". When > the defender was ready he would also reply with "Utz" as in "Yes, I am. > Throw the punch." Could it be they have borrowed the frequently used Japanese term Oss? Some Korean martial arts schools will use Japanese terms instead of the Korean term, e.g. kata instead of poomse, or gi instead of dobok. ??? Just a guess. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 9 Jun 2002 23:19:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Teressa To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] MunMak GiCheon Center Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi all, I think it was Mr. Terry who posted a notice about this place in South Korea. I found the following post on a Korean site, but the poster didn't leave his contact info. http://www.wwoofkorea.com/english.html Sounds interesting. I may check this place out, its not far from where I live. My Taek kyon teacher knew what this was, and I've heard that there is one student at our school who practices, but I've never met him as he goes to morning classes. Enjoy! Teressa ¡Ý À̸§:Daniel Julian C ( ¿© ) ¡Ý 2002/2/25(¿ù) 17:17 (MSIE6.0,Windows98) 211.54.52.100 1024x768 My visit to GiCheon Munmak center Clear Water and an Open Gate: Learning GiCheon with KiTae Lee at MunMak Center My first impression of MunMak GiCheon Center was to wonder how in the world the van was going to make it there in one piece. The little track of dirt and loose rock dipped and heaved and crossed paths three times with the same swift mountain creek. The creekbed at these crossings had not been cleared in any noticable way, so the van was plowing through sandy spots, crunching over jagged gravel, and occasionally hiking a tire up onto and across a half-buried boulder, all while splashing through water deep enough in places to reach above the wheelwells. It was the perfect setting for an ATV commercial: the All Terrain Vehicle cheerily tearing its way up a mountainside any fool could see is impassable... and just like in every one of those ATV commercials, despite the torturous route, the inside of the van remained serene, a mellow tune on the stereo -- something by Simon and Garfunkel -- and the driver, KiTae Lee, calmly humming along. I had contacted KiTae via email after reading of an American woman's recent visit to MunMak Center. Her account had been posted to a listserv dedicated to foreigners living in Korea. She'd written of the center's location in idyllic terms and of GiCheon as a difficult yet rewarding martial art which was uniquely Korean and little-known. I was especially intrigued by her brief descriptions of movements and poses which involved severe twisting and flexing of the joints. I'm double-jointed in several places, and though more inclined to meditation than sparring, I thought a martial art involving hyperextension might have some things to teach me about my bendy body. It was night as the van climbed through MunMak's gate. That's something of a redundancy, "MunMak's gate," because Mun means gate. Mak signifies a sort of guard house. The center takes its name from the nearest sizeable town. There are two schools of thought (at least) about how the town got its name. It is situated in the mountains near the intersection of three provinces, so the name may refer to the guarding of this strategic position. Also, the name is likely to be an evolution of the phrase 'Mul ma Geun,' meaning roughly, 'the water is clear and clean.' I had a quick tour of the compound: the large GiCheon studio near the gate, the midpoint of a path leading in one direction to a kitchen and dining hall, and, in the other direction, to a short row of bungalows. I would be staying in the bungalow farthest from the studio. I was charmed straightaway by the coziness of its low-ceilinged, octagonal design, and surprised by its little luxuries: lots of windows, a gas stove, and electric lights powered, I discovered, by a gasoline-fueled generator tucked away in a nearby ravine. After I dropped off my pack at the bungalow, Kitae took me to the creek, where I splashed away the dust of two days' travel (from Ulsan on the southeast coast). He encouraged me to drink, and I did -- warily at first, then deeply. It was a sweet relief to partake directly of crisp, unmistakeably wholesome water, after months of city life -- drinking from bottles and boiling the tapwater. The conversation we had then was the first of several there at the creek by the studio. These talks run together in my mind; he spoke of a large stone on the mountaintop above, where the creek's first rivulets of water conjoin, a sculpture of the future buddha, of the politics of ancient Korea and how men of power had used the messianic lore of the future buddha to rally and sway the people. He pointed out the feminine aspect of the mountains rising on either side of the creek and the uterine topography of the ravine. In a tone both serious and playful, he discussed the fertility of the valley in which we stood, and told me that the first village downstream was named after the rhythmic grain-threshing windmill, a metaphor for lovemaking. These early observations regarding the topography of the creek and mountains led to later discussions of GiCheon and the body. The Gi in GiCheon refers to the living energy more commonly known by the Chinese word Chi. In the world of GiCheon, the free and full flow of Gi is essential to physical and mental health and spiritual progress. In explaining the flow of Gi to me, KiTae called my attention again to the creek and ravine. When the ravine has steep slopes, the water flows swiftly and rarely dries up. He then showed me his lower back, where the practice of GiCheon has shaped his lumbar region into just such a ravine, his spine a straight seam deep within a cleft of muscle. The aging process, he went on to explain, flattens the muscles, levelling the 'creekbed' between, causing the Gi to flow sluggishly and stagnate until eventually the precious energy flow dries up completely, causing death. The action of GiCheon on the shape of the body is fascinating. I have never seen an adult physiognomy like KiTae's. His limbs are fully rounded, with muscle equally developed on all sides of the bone and curving sharply inward to meet his joints. Even at rest, these foothills of muscle work against the ridgeline of his shoulders, giving his spine the recurve of an unstrung bow. His knees, elbows, ankles and wrists seem likewise supported at all times in an effortless flex. While it is true that I have not seen the like of KiTae's musculature, the overall set of the body is familiar: squint your eyes and you might mistake him for an oversized toddler, shoulders backflung and limbs akimbo in a concerted effort to reach the cookie jar. A clear glance, however, readily dispells this Pooh-bear illusion. KiTae's limbs are rounded not by baby fat, but by supple muscle. This conditioning is brought about by the most fundamental and critical principle of GiCheon: YeokGeun. YeokGeun requires the practicioner of GiCheon to maintain the joints in full flex for extended periods of time. Here is a simple exercise to assist in understanding what is meant by full flex: hold one palm flat against a surface; now curve the fingertips back and away from the surface. A phrase which comes to mind is 'locking' the joints into place. A way of expressing YeokGeun which is perhaps more appropriate than 'locking,' however, is 'opening.' KiTae has encouraged me to visualize opening a door so fully that the hinges will bend no further. With the joints 'opened,' Gi may circulate freely throughout the body. Unconditioned joints are thought to slow and even block completely this vital energy flow. According to GiCheon philosophy, the free flow of Gi is essential not only to the health of the individual, but on a grander scale as well, to the harmonious balance of the Earth, humanity, and the universe. The cycling of Gi through this trinity of planes is reflected in many GiCheon poses and movements, the practitioner's body describing triangular and circular shapes. When I asked KiTae to explain to me the meaning of 'Cheon' in GiCheon, he was clearly somewhat exasperated by the obstacle of translation. The term Cheon is laden with meaning to Koreans. "It is... all of everything in the cosmos," KiTae told me, going on to explain that Koreans address Cheon in prayer during times of drought. Yet it was obvious that the language barrier would allow him to convey only a glimpse of the word's meaning. When confronted by such semantic resistance, KiTae often laughs a certain sighing laugh. His voice has a leonine quality, not unlike that of James Earl Jones. At moments such as these, which might engender frustration, even anger, he seems amused in an almost melancholy way. I cannot imagine this man succumbing to stress or self-pity. I am a slow learner; during my stay at MunMak, I learned one static YeokGeun pose and one brief sequence of movements. In the pose, called NaeGaShinJang, I have the look of a man on horseback warding off a descending blow. The movement, DanBaeGong, is a counterbalanced stretch to the sides, front, back, up onto the toetips and down into a kneeling bow. After practicing these first steps for a couple of months, I plan to seek out KiTae again for more GiCheon philosophy and physical instruction. He is currently in the process of opening a new center in Ilsan city, Kyonggido, north of Seoul city, and can be contacted at the following email address: gicheonmaster@yahoo.com Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'DoJang Digest' Date: Mon, 10 Jun 2002 09:36:50 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Dilemma...Not Really Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net MiniSara... Since Your Master instructor is you current instructor's Master instructor...there should be no dilemma...you both are under the same Master instructor and same organization...simply talk to both of them and let them each know that you are planning... I was in a simialr situation, but two differnet Grand Masters Under two different organizations...because of the type of work I do I move every few years...so it is very difficult to communicate and train with My Grand Master in Iowa and associated fellow students...But.. I stay in touch... When I moved to kansas, being a 3rd Dan at the time...I needed someplace to train to prepare for my 4th Dan test...many of my co-workers were in TKD and the Company Rec Center had a TKD club which Istarted attending...I was 2nd highest ranking belt under the instructor who was a 4th Dan...eventually I started instructing in his abscence...and attending tests... I was told by one of the Masters that the Grand Master wanted me to come in uniform to the tests...even though I was from a different organization...So I showed up in MY uniform...Then was told to wear one of their uniforms...which was GIVEN TO ME...so I continued to train and teach for this Grand Master.. I explained all of this to my Grand Master...he understood the situation and allowed me to continue to train as well as teach for the other Grand Master...Knowing full well that my allegiance was to him and that I would teach in accordance to his desires... The Grand master with whom I was associated with at the time offered to give me a rank in his organization if I desired... I politely and humbly said I could not because My allegiance was to MY Grand Master Instructor...he understood this and accepted it in full... He then allowed me to take over one of his clubs as head instructor when the original head instructor became too busy with work load to carry on...the original head instructor gave me full support and put in some very good words for me...The Grand master also allowed me to instruct at his main school and conduct tests...I trained and instructed at a few of his branches while I lived in Kansas, but supported the events and instructors under my Grand Master in Iowa... talking with him on occasion and continuing to let him know what I was doing and why... Neither Grand Master appeared to have had a problem with this...I just tested for my 5th Dan in Iowa with full support from the Black Belts and Grand Master in Iowa as well as in Kansas... You don't have a dilemma... K. G. Farral Staff Mechanical Engineer ITT Industries 7310 Innovation Blvd. P.O. Box 731 Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46801-0731 Ph: (219) 451-5312 Fax: (219) 451-5476 kim.farral@itt.com ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest