Date: Sat, 22 Jun 2002 07:00:12 -0700 (PDT) From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #305 - 4 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: rterry@idiom.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: OR Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Kuk Sool Won Weapons at my school (terry potter) 2. Gifts (Farral, Kim) 3. RE: Kuk Sul Weapons Approach (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 4. (no subject) (Charles Veuleman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "terry potter" To: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 00:01:56 -0600 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kuk Sool Won Weapons at my school Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey Bill... At the Kuk Sool school that I train in up hear in Canada, we study the following distinct types of weapons: Sword Long staff Short staff Throwing knife Cane Rope Fan And that's it... Terry -----Original Message----- From: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net [mailto:the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net] On Behalf Of Richard Goater Sent: June 17, 2002 5:09 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kuk Sool Won Weapons Question Hi all, I'm interested in Kuk Sool Won, but I can't believe there are 27 different weapons in the syllabus, for which I can find no information on the net. Could someone list them all for me please? Also, when do you start practising them, as I would have thought that it would take a long time from BB to get to grips with them all... Thanks in advance. Bill. --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Farral, Kim" To: 'DoJang Digest' Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 07:34:24 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Gifts Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net IMHO: A gift to an instructor for achieving a Dan is strictly up to the individual...personally speaking...I don't expect gifts nor do any of the instructors with whom I am associated...To an instructor, the student achievment of Dan is the reward as well as passing on the knowledge in the footsteps of the instructor...tangible items as gifts hold little meaning...watching your students progress and teach has a far greater value and reward...personally thanking your instructor is always a good thing...but a gift is not necessary nor is it (in most cases) expected...like I said ...that is up to the individual... but if you are going to give a gift... may I suggest a trip to Korea? K. G. Farral Staff Mechanical Engineer ITT Industries 7310 Innovation Blvd. P.O. Box 731 Ft. Wayne, Indiana 46801-0731 Ph: (219) 451-5312 Fax: (219) 451-5476 kim.farral@itt.com ************************************ If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the addressee, please note that this message may contain ITT Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you may not copy or deliver this message to anyone. You should destroy this message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of ITT is neither endorsed by nor attributable to ITT. ************************************ [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type application/ms-tnef] --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:20:55 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Kuk Sul Weapons Approach Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Bill and Charles: ".......I'm interested in Kuk Sool Won, but I can't believe there are 27 different weapons in the syllabus, for which I can find no information on the net......" Like you I was very curious about the Kuk Sul Won material but I take a little more intellectual approach (gee, what were the chances of that?). I do have a copy of the "Fighting Weapons" book by GM Suh and the late Jane Hallander. I also have a copy of Dr. Yang, Jwing-mings' book on Chinese weaponry which is a nice companion to the first. The MUYE TOBO TONG JI identifies 17 individual or variations of weapons, I think all of which were included in Charles list. The problem in your question is when you begin to connect this information with Kuk Sul Won and what it is intended to represent. According to GM Suhs' report he was the inheritor of his late grandfathers five notebooks which purportedly contained the wealth of his experience as a "master instructor" with the palace guards just prior to the end of the Yi Dynasty in 1910. At that time the Korean army and police forces were effectively disbanded and everybody had to go out and get "real" jobs. :-) I have not been able to find any documentation to support that the Korean army specifically, or the palace security forces trained in 20 or 30 different weapons especially the more arcane ones such as the "Tiger Fork". Turning the coin over, some weapons such as the "rope techniques" don't turn-up in the MYTBTJ but continuely pop up in various Korean traditions albeit in widely varied curriculum. Some skills which have been documented in Korean history such as plate throwing, rock throwing and sand throwing don't seem to come up at all except in historical reference, nor do such skills as horsemanship, swimming/water combat or what we in the States wood call "wood craft". I made an effort over a two week period to contact M. Barry Harmon down in Texas but the calls weren't returned. I tried to speak with M Mike Hall here in Chicago and came away wishing that my call hadn't gone through. I share this last not as a slam at Kuk Sul Won (well, maybe a little slam) but to offer you a sanity check. The Kuk Sul people represent what they believe are Korean traditions taught the way they think those traditions would have been executed for the reasons that they choose to do it that way. GM Suh would have been about 13 when his grandfather died about 1952. I am going to bet that most of what is served up by the KSW people is simply a reconstructed guess at how the various weapons skills might have been based on whatever documentation they can find. I will also add, IMVHO, that from what I have seen in this country, people making an effort to accomplish the same sort of reconstructions are doing at least as good a job (maybe better) than their Korean counterparts. FWIW. Besdt Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 08:41:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hmm, a trip to Jackson. Maybe. Thats not too far away. let me ponder on it for a while. Also, the questions about weapons, we teach Two bo forms, two sai forms, two kama forms, and two nunchaku forms. I have see most all of them except for the nunchaku forms, which i have only seen one of. Charlie V. ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! 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