Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 03:50:54 -0500 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #315 - 6 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Stuff along the way (J.R. West) 2. Bruces reply to Rita (Paul McGeown) 3. RE: Eating rice (Ray Terry) 4. glass ceilings (michael tomlinson) 5. Eating more rice (Rudy Timmerman) 6. 'eat more rice' (Jeffery Dean Sr) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:32:44 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Stuff along the way Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net As far as changing schools is concerned, anyone that joins my school starts over as a white belt, regardless of style or organization, and I have had up to 6th dan conform to this house rule. There are several reasons that I follow this line of thinking, first, I teach my students that their belt is good for two things only, that is, holding up their pants, and identifying where they are in their training as far as MY school (only) is concerned. Secondly, beginner students are UNBELIEVABLY impressionable, and will imitate anyone of a higher rank, and as we all know, there are many different ways to execute techniques, but only one way in my school, so I want to make sure that everything that my students see is what I want them to see. I have found that it is also a little tough on "visiting" black belts when lower rank students ask about certain aspects of basic motion, and either the terminology or execution is different than what the visitors have encountered before, thereby putting them on the spot. Thirdly, and rather selfishly, I have some students that have been with me for many, many years (Tavassoli has been here for over twenty), and no-one is going to walk in and assume a position of some authority, who has not put in the time HERE to earn it, and again, it is very difficult for new students to know who is "home-grown" and who is "imported". On another note, and in answer to Bruce's earlier comment, all I can say about some of the organizations that I have observed (HapKiDo) is that the quickest way to get me to turn my back on them is to promote some bozo with less than adequate knowledge and technique to a position and rank of importance in order to add numbers to their rolls or bank accounts. I can think of one of these groups that is now saying "perhaps we should have been a little more careful", but the damage is already done. I am constantly being bombarded by friends and students with high-priced videos from some of these characters, and their escapades on film start out incredulous, turn to hilarious, and then just make everyone mad. When someone shows up at my door and says he's a member of the "XYZ" association and all I can picture is the guy on the video who is also a member and is known for his bushy orange hair and long yellow shoes, I automatically, fairly or not, put this person in the same category. A basic rule of thumb is, if you can buy certification, why bother, because everyone else can buy it as well...... Finally, congratulations to Kat Kelly on her new school, I know that GM Timmerman is VERY proud of her, and so am I...J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Paul McGeown" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2002 10:59:41 +1200 Subject: [The_Dojang] Bruces reply to Rita Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Bruce, I was very impressed with your answer to Rita's question about the "Indomitable Spirit". I have printed it off and given copies to all my students. Thanks Rita for asking such a good question!! Paul McGeown _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Eating rice To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 17:06:42 PDT Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Is this because tatami mats are traditionally made from rice straw? > ;) > > John W. > Fremont, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ray Terry [mailto:raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com] > ..... > Or maybe they want you to 'eat more rice'. > .... > P.S. To eat more rice means to obtain more practice time. In cultures where rice is eaten every day, as you live longer (and thus get more mat time) you are eating more rice. So a comment like 'you must eat more rice' just means you need to spend more time on something. But I think I like your description better... :) Ray Terry --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 23:22:16 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] glass ceilings Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: at some point students hit a technical "glass-ceiling" that the leadership seemed unable, or unwilling, to take us beyond.>> No offense Bruce but didn't you attend a Hapkido seminar a while back, not make it thru two days of training and then write an article the size of War and Peace on what you saw as missing, inept, and full of areas that you could counter? Maybe the "glass ceiling" that you think you see is actually the floor of some the the high ranking black belts in the W.H.F.,, I agree with Ray, More Practice! if you practice 24/7 then you usually find the solutions or see thru your glass ceilings a lot more, good Instructors simply point you on the journey,, you are the one who actually has to do the "walking", maybe a little more walking and less hitch hiking is in order? Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 19:54:25 -0400 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Eating more rice Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Bruce writes: > If its OK with you, I would like to take this a step farther, then. > I am going out on a limb and will suggest that a great many folks who follow > "big name" personalities must, like you, follow their instincts and often > must find that what they are being told by whoever leads their organization > simply does not add up the way it is presented. In my own case, with the > World Hapkido Federation, it became pretty obvious after a few years that > what was being taught in the WHF curriculum didn't hold a candle to > Hapkidos' DRAJJ roots, that the sword material was Kendo and not Kumdo, and > that at some point students hit a technical "glass-ceiling" that the > leadership seemed unable, or unwilling, to take us beyond. Hello Bruce: Your curiosity is just fine with me:) I have been rather fortunate I guess. The instructors I had did not hold back on their teaching, and it was actually a bit strenuous to follow their pace (I guess I am a slow learner:) As far as curriculum is concerned. I believe that many orgs simply organize their material in a way that best suits their objectives, and when it comes right down to it the actual material often is quite similar. For example, JR and I come from somewhat different backgrounds, but our technique is strikingly similar. > Does loyalty to leadership, and however leadership couches reality, take > precedence over how things actually are, or were? In days of old, I > understand, loyal retainers were expected to say something if the leadership > did not conduct itself in the best interests of its subjects. What are our > responsibilities exactly, if we as small children discover that the Emperor is > actually not wearing any clothes? IMHO, loyalty should be a strong part of any martial art training; however, it has to go both ways. When I left the org I belonged to it was a hard thing for me to do. I have a strong sense of loyalty, but at the same time I also have a loyalty to my students. Hence, I went against my personal loyalties to better serve my own students. I felt I had that obligation, but I believe each person should follow his or her own heart. In my case, the breakaway was not the result of technical differences. It was simply a matter of politics and fees that I could no longer agree with. > > Unfortunately, we don't have just scads and scads of organizational leaders > on this Net so I am stating my thoughts a bit strongly because I know that > both you and JR West have organizations of your own. Bruce, if there is one thing I have learned, it is that you don't pull many punches. You have strong opinions, and I fear that some of that may have turned to bite you. Still, I applaud your sincerety on these issues. > I think that the folks on the Net would be well-served if individuals such > as yourself, JR, Dr. Kimm, Richard, Steve and others would speak to this > issue and share some thoughts on how to address these matters. As martial artists, we should know that such strong questions are not welcome in the culture of Korean arts. I suggest that any pointed questions must be asked with the utmost tact (if an answer is expected). >I bet there are many more splinterings of organizations over issues like this than anything else. Personally, I believe that most splintering is the result of enthusiastic young martial artists who want to spread their own wings and make their own imprint. I view this in the same way children leave home because they are at odds with their parents. Unfortunately, as our host pointed out, most of them have not eaten enough rice. What's even more unfortunate is that some orgs (I believe you call them certificate mills) prey on these wayward youngsters, and lure them with promises of high rank. Sadly, this leaves them with rank that cannot be supported by knowledge, and no one to learn from. Still, there is the odd Master who, rather than simply rearrange a given curriculum, truly has something different to offer his students, and that is how a new style is formed. I am sorry for the long post her, but Bruce does ask a lot of questions:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Jeffery Dean Sr" To: Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2002 21:42:04 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] 'eat more rice' Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, good answer, just one little question ( or as some of us say Let me axe you sumthin') thank you sir, may i have another?? :) Tang Soo Dean Sr. --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! 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