Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2002 08:16:29 -0500 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #328 - 15 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Kansas City MO (Chris Hamilton EZ Lock) 2. RE: Closing thought (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 3. Knife throwing (CKCtaekwon@cs.com) 4. Re: Knife throwing (Ray Terry) 5. Kido Hae and TSD (Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do) 6. RE: Kansas City MO (RReeves) 7. Is you is - or is you ain't - Hapkido (Patrick L) 8. July 4th (J.R. West) 9. Tae Kwon Do Library (Grant D. Watson) 10. Re: Kido Hae and TSD (Ray Terry) 11. Thank you Ray (Braeswood Martial Arts) 12. Re: Tae Kwon Do Library (Ray Terry) 13. No definitive Hapkido book. (FirstPe315@aol.com) 14. Gm Ji - AMC - Game of Death, Redux (Ray Terry) 15. Re: No definitive Hapkido book. (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Chris Hamilton EZ Lock" To: Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:40:43 -0500 Organization: EZ Lock Incorporated Subject: [The_Dojang] Kansas City MO Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, I will be headed for Kansas City, MO in August for a few days on a business trip. Does anyone know of a Hapkido or similar dojang I might visit while there? Thanks, Chris H. Han Mu Do --__--__-- Message: 2 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:12:14 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Closing thought Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Dakin: ".......> What I was working > to communicate was that just because one can modify the biomechanic of that > takedown into a throw, did automatically follow that one could modify the > Outside 4-D-T also into a throw. Ok, I can see that. So your point was that adding a hip toss into the mix on an outside four corner throw did not help, and that the "takedown" as you called it was the way to go. Right?...." Yep, thats pretty much the long and the short of it, except add on that in this particular case IMVHO I believe that the addition of the hip movement not only did not add to the technique but put the defender in a vulnerable position. Now, in fairness, Michael is pretty sure that if the technique is done right and done well, there would be no problem. I still hold that he is right as long as he is working with someone who is familiar with the execution of the technique. In an actual combat application and being forced to use it, I would limit myself to the Outside 4-D-T but the take-down version only. BTW: Is the use of "Four Corners" cum "Four Directions" a linguistic, perhaps semantic issue, or am I at risk for having used a sword label on an aiki-jutsu technique. Just wondering. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 3 From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:06:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Knife throwing Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net does anyone know of an excellent knife throwing video? Gary Pieratt Castroville Karate Club www.askarate.com Under God Have a Great Day! --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Knife throwing To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 14:13:13 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > does anyone know of an excellent knife throwing video? One place to review is http://www.sonic.net/~quine/thrower.html. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Moja Kwan Tang Soo Do" To: Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 17:32:20 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Kido Hae and TSD Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> 98%??? So all of Tae Kwon Do, Soo Bahk Do, and Tang Soo Do fall under the governing body of the World Ki Do Federation? Where did that number come from and who is the World Ki Do Federation? I've been involved in Korean martial arts for over 15 years and I've never heard of it. I am an E Dan in the Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and have studied the history of Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and Tang Soo Do and no one has ever mentioned this Federation. Can you explain? I don't even see those organizations listed in the table of styles/schools. <> IIRC The CDK and MDK where the two biggest hold outs from the "Tae Soo Do", "Tae Kwon Do" reorganizing and "Korean national sport" transition. Thus they are often overlooked or shoved into the "other" category....In the end a good majority of CDK and MDK joined the WTF/Kukiwon. Typically a MDK TKD school will trim their dobohks and have a similar cirriculum to a MDK TSD school except the TKD school is more likely to add the palgue or taeguk forms or do them in lieu of the pyung ahn set... <> I then went to the Dae Han KiDohae site and looked up GM In Sun Seo - how could it be that he certified over 200,000 Dans in the last 18 years (1983 is when he started) - that would be over 30/day for 365 days/year. Pretty tough to do that and publish 7 books and serve as the head of 3 large organizations. Then it says that "Grandmaster Seo is the only first generation martial artist to teach and operate a dojang in Korea continuously for the last 35 years." Perhaps today, GM Hwang Kee doesn't actively teach and operate a dojang in Korea - I don't know and maybe Ray or Alain can substantiate that since they've been there and are list members - but isn't that a pretty outrageous claim? <> 30 a day by proxy, authorizing others to conduct dan exams, but reserving the right/authority to issue/certify <> Can he really be a "first generation" Korean martial artist when Chung Do Kwan, Tae Soo Do, Tang Soo Do, and Moo Duk Kwan all preceded World War 2 and survived to organize in the years immediately after? Since he didn't get involved until the 1950's, wouldn't that make him 2nd generation? <> Actually some of the "kwans" considered "1st generation" started as late as the 50's...IIRC none of them except the CDK started (oops officially named themselves) before 1945... <> I go to every Korean martial arts website I find out about and some of the stuff I read is so amazing - some outrageous claims, such as a 30 year old 7th Dan. (Hey, I don't know how long it takes in other styles, but I know in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan it takes at least 32 years to go from white belt to 7th Dan in the curriculum, and that's if you pass every test every time!) Do we have to inflate our histories, our resumes, our metrics? Can't things just stand for themselves? <> Cliff , you and I are going to get along fine :-) BTW a couple of years ago my budy and I happened to be riding the MARTA with our TSD T-shirts on and of course got asked if we practiced the arts, and what rank.....after we told him we had our blackbelts the guy told us he was an 8th Dan. He looked to be about 30 years old or less so we asked him how long he had been training. He said about 15 years :-) Keep the faith Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.geocities.com/mojakwan --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "RReeves" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] Kansas City MO Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 15:50:27 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Chris- I live in Kansas City! Do you know what days you'll be here, and what part of Kansas City you'll be in, and if you'll be on the Missouri or Kansas side? Hope you enjoy your time here :-) Rita -----Original Message----- From: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net [mailto:the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net]On Behalf Of Chris Hamilton EZ Lock Sent: Tuesday, July 02, 2002 2:41 PM To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kansas City MO Hello Everyone, I will be headed for Kansas City, MO in August for a few days on a business trip. Does anyone know of a Hapkido or similar dojang I might visit while there? Thanks, Chris H. Han Mu Do _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 7 From: "Patrick L" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 02 Jul 2002 15:58:07 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] Is you is - or is you ain't - Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Mr. Sims, >Regarding the nature of Kumdo, we could have a fine stroll down Korean history and get into some pretty interesting hair-splitting about terminology, technique and the like. There are 24 Bup or "postures" characteristic of Kumdo while there are about 5 in the original Kendo. Technically speaking then, it would probably be more accurate to identify Kendo as a subset of traditional Kumdo but I think that would set the IKF to howling. Then there is the question of whether we are talking about Kumdo since 1953 . . .< Split all the hairs you want, the topic was "what constitutes Hapkido" and my objection stands - Kumdo is NOT more Hapkido than Kendo. The fact that some folks wish to imagine suppleness in the reconstituted mummies of dead Korean arts does not change what WAS going on in Hapkido, only what IS going on around Hapkido. >I also agree that the adjustments to curriculum should be made by those running the organization. However, in practice there are a number of reasons that this never quite gets around to happening.< Either you agree or you don't - your rational is unfounded - changes frequently happen! The problem is not in change, speed of change, or reasoning behind change or stasis. The problem is anxious, undiciplined egos that feel that their opinions are not only right, but that their implementation is urgent! >most leadership is to full of itself to consider that perhaps they have >been doing something less than efficiently for years.< Based upon whose infallable opinion? Why do you characterise leadership as if it has some quality not shared by other humans, say ... members or independants. >many practitioners, by the time they have gotten into a position to invoke >change are then as short-sighted, or narrow-focused as the person they >learned from.< Based upon whose infallable opinion? There is nothing inherent in time to make one short-sighted or narrow-focused. It is only the disconnected fool that can afford to be rash. >KMA is not long on tolerance and flexibility even if such things are proven >to contribute to the health of an organization.< Nonsense! If YOU are tolerant and flexible, then YOU TOO CAN find a spot in ANY organization. If the organization is tolerant and flexible, it ends up recognizing TKD lower belts as HKD masters! Getting in the WAY, Patrick _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:09:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] July 4th Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to wish all the list members from the USA a most happy 4th of July, especially all my fellow veterans. I would also like to wish all of those north of the border a great Canada day as well (eh?).....J. R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:14:38 -0700 (PDT) From: "Grant D. Watson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do Library Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I'm curious to hear what books listmembers think would be the most valuable editions to my (very small) Tae Kwon Do library. I'm a first dan practicing an ITF-like style (though not ITF affiliated), if it matters. Oh, yeah, and books appropriate for others can be mentioned too. ;-) ===== Grant D. Watson, Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kido Hae and TSD To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:23:37 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > BTW a couple of years ago my budy and I happened to be riding the MARTA with > our TSD T-shirts on and of course got asked if we practiced the arts, and > what rank.....after we told him we had our blackbelts the guy told us he was > an 8th Dan. He looked to be about 30 years old or less so we asked him how > long he had been training. He said about 15 years :-) At that rate Masters West and Timmerman would be, ahh, ummm, sorry, I can't count that high... Ray "16th Dan" Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Braeswood Martial Arts" To: Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:28:15 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Thank you Ray Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I appreciate your post regarding the Kido Hae questions from Mr. Vaught. I will let the other questions be responded to by those he addressed. As was discussed at out GO this past weekend, we all really enjoy the fact that this posting always remains informative and positive and post are made without any type of "slamming". Thanks again Ray!!!! Kat --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Tae Kwon Do Library To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 18:34:50 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I'm curious to hear what books listmembers think would > be the most valuable editions to my (very small) Tae > Kwon Do library. I'm a first dan practicing an > ITF-like style (though not ITF affiliated), if it matters. Do you have the General's Taekwon-Do encyclopedia (15 volumes)? If you do ITF-like TKD, that or his condensed (1 volume) encyclopedia would be a very good start, imho. I don't do ITF, but I have both. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 23:30:28 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] No definitive Hapkido book. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 7/2/2002 12:41:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > We CERTAINLY agree on one point and that is that Hapkido and Aikido, for all > their superficial similarities are not the same--- just like judo and > ju-jutsu are not the same. Both arts have many of the same ingredients but > are used in different proportions. The result is something as different as > pie and cookies. The only advantage I can see is that in the post WW II era > there has been a lot of material written on Aikido that helps when > discussing Hapkido techniques. So far, nobody I know has written a > diffinitive book on Hapkido such as AIKIDO AND THE DYNAMIC SPHERE by Ratti > and Westerbrook or OS Saitos' five volume set. Even Tedeschis' book which > is > currently all the rage is nothing more than a catalogue of techniques and > Dr. Kimms' book despite its organization and great history is essentially a > catalogue rather than a study of the art. What is missing is a definitive > work that accords the use of the body the same respect that coaching books > for other activities such as baseball, tennis and golf. There will be one coming soon. It's going to be written by Master Richard Morgan who is a direct student of James Garrison, 9th Dan. He is a brilliant writer and there will be practically NO techniques in it as far as I've been told. It will be discussing many mechanical, philosophical, strategical etc. It appears from his website (warriormind.net/welcome1.htm) that he will be discussing in detail Tan Jan Breathing, Water Principle, Blending, Tactics and Strategies of Angles etc. It should be quite good when it is finished. J --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:07:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Gm Ji - AMC - Game of Death, Redux Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Interesting... While channel surfing I just happened across a 1 or 2 yr old documentary that was airing on AMC, Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey. Perhaps ya'll have seen it before, but it was new for me. It showed Lee's original plan for the movie Game of Death along with a lot of fight footage that did not make it into the final cut, given Sifu Lee's untimely death. Lots of additional footage of Lee and Gm Ji fighting. Very interesting to watch Gm Ji looking so young, and without his glasses (of course you see this in the movie). In one place they mention that Gm Ji was a 7th Dan in 1972, when the movie was being made. I believe he was an 8th as Gm Choi Yong-sool promoted him and Lee Joo-bang to 8th Dan in 1968. Fun to watch Gm Ji employing his favorite fighting stance and seeing him do his back spin kick, always in the clockwise direction... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 15 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] No definitive Hapkido book. To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 21:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > There will be one coming soon. It's going to be written by Master Richard > Morgan who is a direct student of James Garrison, 9th Dan. Great! Can you tell us more about Master Garrison and where his Hapkido training comes from? Thanks. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest