Date: Sat, 6 Jul 2002 03:23:29 -0500 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #332 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. 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Today's Topics: 1. knife range (CKCtaekwon@cs.com) 2. wrstling (CKCtaekwon@cs.com) 3. Kansas City, 4th of July, and Boxing= rambling thoughts from a loose canon (Ken McDonough) 4. GM In Sun Seo=meeting people in public places (Ken McDonough) 5. Re: Michael Echanis Books (Richard Zaruba) 6. Michael Ecanis books (Daves MA Mail) 7. Respect of Our Masters (Steve Seo) 8. Introduction to Combat Hapkido Book is now available. (MPR) 9. World Kido Federation and the Kidohae (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 10. GM Seo and the Chicago Seminar (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 11. RE: Echanis's Knife Fighting Book (Dunn, Danny J RASA) 12. World Kido Federation and the Kidohae (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 13. Questions about Kidohae (Dunn, Danny J RASA) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:39:09 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] knife range Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 7/4/02 7:41:54 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > Message: 1 > From: "michael tomlinson" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:16:32 +0000 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Knife throwing > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > For those interested in knife throwing I have a few words of advice that I > would like to part on you,, now this is not gospel but it is very > practical,, I also like to throw knives and have a little range set up in > my > backyard,, Mike, what is your knife range, plywood? let me know. thanks for the great info. Gary Pieratt Castroville Karate Club www.askarate.com Success in life is largely the result of habit. Have a Great Day! --__--__-- Message: 2 From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 09:42:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] wrstling Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 7/4/02 7:41:54 AM Central Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > From: "michael tomlinson" > To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 00:39:07 +0000 > Subject: [The_Dojang] Iowa Wrestling > Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > > There was also a show on ESPN right before the Bruce Lee show called "the > season", it chronicled the wrestlers on Univ. of Iowa's team, it was very > good also, did anyone catch that show too, makes you realize just how much > of a martial art wrestling actually is. Showed a couple of wrestlers using > the Puke Can at the edge of the mats during practice and later during a > meet.. boy did that bring back some bad memories! > Michael Tomlinson > In high school our wrestling classes were in the boiler room. we wore plastic sweats for practic with elastic at the end of sleeves and legs. very hot, dropped lots of sweat/weight. At 5 feet 4inches, my normal weight my senior year was 138, I wrestled at 126! were we nuts or what? Gary Pieratt Castroville Karate Club www.askarate.com Success in life is largely the result of habit. Have a Great Day! --__--__-- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:04:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: maganda44@yahoo.com Subject: [The_Dojang] Kansas City, 4th of July, and Boxing= rambling thoughts from a loose canon Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master West noted: To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Tue, 2 Jul 2002 20:09:18 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] July 4th Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to wish all the list members from the USA a most happy 4th of July, especially all my fellow veterans. I would also like to wish all of those north of the border a great Canada day as well (eh?).....J. R. West www.hapkido.com> Rambling thoughts: a. Kansas City, MO= Wilbur Harrison, "Kansas City"= "...they got some crazy little women there...and I gonna find me one..." b. July 4th and VA= who knows, I may be working for the Dept of Veterans Affairs. I may be in your town one day...watch your kids...he he. c. Boxing= Lesson number 4 soon to arrive on newstands. Speaking of Boxing. Here is a quiz for you old timers on the list. What boxing personality was featured in this Breakstone Cream Cheese commercial. This boxing personality said the (paraphrase) following: <...wanna develop a good left jab, wanna have a good chin, then eat what I eat...Breakstones Cream Cheese..." d. Recently purchased a digital camera. Want to do one of those digital photo albums. Subjects to include: -- Hitting sides of beef in a meat packing plant= good for body shot development -- Eating Calzone and Gyros prior to a big match, then cry out, "No Mas" after the first round -- How to train your black lab to wrestle -- Using Pez dispensers as a secret weapon that no modern day law enforcement agent will recognize -- Using your left hand more than signals for turning your car (old timers know that one) -- How a bowl of popcorn and a cane can work wonders on the streets -- Thumb tacks= street tactical weapon, Part II -- Do pea shooters really work in a clutch situation ? -- How to set up your basement as a gym versus last house on the left scenarios. Note: keep the chain saw in the shed. -- "Don't look in the basement"= after you set up your basement gym tips -- "Forgetting to fill up your propane tanks on the 4th of July barbecue bash !" Parts I and II with Ken's secret sauce, special chapter. More to follow. Bye, Big Ken Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 08:41:03 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: maganda44@yahoo.com Subject: [The_Dojang] GM In Sun Seo=meeting people in public places Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Speaking of the great GM In Sun Seo, it is amazing at how I have run into people in certain places: a. While lunching in Washington, DC, I was sitting next to Jerry Lewis, the comedian. He looks like the goofy Professor. Does weird things to food to grab a laugh ! b. While in Maui, years ago, I was at a club. In the corner sitting was Tony Curtis, aka Mr. Schwarz (his real name). c. Once, while grabbing a plane from Seoul to Pusan, I had the pleasure of sitting behind GM In Sun Seo who was on business travel.I exhanged a furtive glance. Lesson Learned: Always brush your teeth and use under arm deodorant since you never know who u will run into. As in the Dojang, hygiene is important. Look carefully now at your toenails=have you cut them lately ? People will notice that stuff. McD... Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Thu, 04 Jul 2002 11:31:38 -0500 From: Richard Zaruba To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Michael Echanis Books Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net His black book "Knife Fighting, Knife Throwing for Combat" was considered to aggressive and violent to be considered appropriate for Ohara and their emphasis on self-defense and traditional martial arts at the time it was published (1978) is what I was told when I inquired about it. I was sort of hoping either WHRDA or Ohara would start publishing it again, but to no avail. Rich (Who actually has one of the Black Books) > In a message dated 07/03/2002 8:12:40 PM EST, > the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > > << I also think the old Michael Ecanis weapon disarming books are very good > too. >> > > Have anyone noticed that his Red Book (stick fighting) and Green Book (Knife > defences) are not that hard to locate and buy, but his Black Book (Knife > fighting) is almost impossible to find???? > > Just something I've noticed..... > > Craig > (Who has the Red and Green Books, but has only seen one copy of the Black > Book, in the possession of my old instructor) --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Daves MA Mail" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Michael Ecanis books Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 13:10:05 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Try Budo Books and Videos Post Office Box 4727 Overland Park, Kansas 66204-0727 That's where I got my copy years ago. And don't forget the 'h' in his last name 'Echanis'. D Hacker --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 10:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Steve Seo To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Respect of Our Masters Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ray, I suppose this is a matter of perspective. I have always been taught to respect all elder masters for what they have done for the martial arts and all that they sacrificed in order perpetuate and grow the arts. Above all else, I try to teach my students and live by the idea that we must respect and honor our seniors, especially our masters. I understand that much of the Korean Martial Arts landscape has been tarnished these days by irreputable masters and persons, but for me personally, I maintain that we must still honor and respect our masters first, before discounting who and what they are. In terms of the discussion here, I don't disagree with the questions, but the manner in which they were asked. I"m referring to the "here we go again, another Korean Master that we can't trust and we shouldn't have to respect." Perhaps its a quaint idea, but for me, it seems that we have to do a better job from distinguishing the bad apples from the good ones. And in the process of doing so, we have to be careful not to disrespect the masters that are indeed honorable and deserve respect. Ray, I understand you want list with free flowing ideas and information, but I think the respect factor still applies. Ok, that's just my two cents but I'm guessing that there are those out there that share my view. Steve Seo > > Steve, > > All that we saw was someone asking a simple question > and receiving > very reasonable and factual responses. Why so > defensive? > > Ray Terry > rterry@idiom.com Sign up for SBC Yahoo! Dial - First Month Free http://sbc.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "MPR" To: Date: Thu, 4 Jul 2002 16:49:34 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Introduction to Combat Hapkido Book is now available. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Finally it is here! The book is now available after many false starts and pains with publishers and printers. My first book "Introduction to Combat Hapkido:The Science of Self-Defense" is now available. Orders can be made directly from the Publisher at: Dan Il Press PO Box 540103 Omaha, NE 68154 Or from the ICHF at ichfstaff@ichf.com It will soon be available from Borders, Barnes and Nobel, and Amazon.com. I can also take orders as well and you can call me to order them direct at (402)289-0388 to place your credit card order. Michael Rowe --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: seo727@yahoo.com Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:11:35 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] World Kido Federation and the Kidohae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Steve, While I'd love to make the trip to California from Virginia to train, it's just not possible. Tang Soo Do a Japanese art? In Korea, as far as I know, the Moo Duk Kwan has been teaching Soo Bahk Do officially since 1960 when they changed the name from Tang Soo Do. Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan and Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan were founded by GM Hwang Kee - Korean. I find it an insult to his reputation that you feel that Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan, founded 11/3/1945, is not a Korean Martial Art. GM J.C. Shin - not teaching a Korean martial art? C.S. Kim? Jae Joon Kim? The organizations founded by those 4 martial artists probably have followers running in the millions throughout the world. While I probably go along with the assertion that TKD, in general, is a sport more than an art, that has never been an issue for the Moo Duk Kwan. My point was not whether TKD and TSD/SBD are in the Kido Federation or governed by them. It was the assertion that 98% of Korean Martial Arts fall under its governance. GM Hwang Kee resisted the unification efforts of General Choi and the Korean government in the 1960's. You all didn't "not choose" him - he rejected unification and had to go to the Korean supreme court to keep the right. In the process, he lost many Dan members who felt the pressure from the government too great to remain with him. Funny how this all seems to work out. Groups that split away from GM Hwang Kee and the MDK often state it's no longer "authentic" Tang Soo Do because of the new forms and techniques he's introduced (Chil Sung hyung, etc.) and the forms required now for testing. Then those outside TSD, SBD, and MDK sit in judgement that it's not even a Korean martial art. Kind of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario. By the way, it's one thing to reference "especially in Korea" when considering the Korea Kido Hae, but I should think that if you're considering the WORLD Kido Federation, then what is specifically happening in Korea is not germane to the conversation. Finally, I have no disrespect for GM In Sun Seo at all. My statement regarding the 30 year old 7th Dan was not about him. I would say that the person who authored the web profile made it vague enough that one could read that he PERSONALLY certified 200,000 Dans in just 18 year. Ray's response of a couple days ago about proxy, etc., is ample explanation. I have read some amazing things on the web - even that GM Hwang Kee abdicated leadership of the Moo Duk Kwan and currently resides in the U.S. - so I don't trust everything I read. I question the outrageous things. Cliff --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:16:21 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] GM Seo and the Chicago Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Steve: Its great to hear from you again, and its quite a coincidence, too. I recently received a circular concerning an up-coming event here in Chicago on September 28th and 29th and wondered if you had any additional information on it. Apparently the event, called "The Gathering" is hosted by something called the "Martial Arts Collective Society" in conjunction with the Korea Kido Association. There is included a telephone number for additional information (630-852-4422). However, as someone who does quite a bit to keep us up on whats happening with the KIDOHAE, perhaps you could provide some detailed information on what GM Seo's agenda will be. From what I can conclude from the circular there are a number of Asian Martial Arts being represented through a range of seminars over a two-day period. Its hard for me to think of GM Seo being just one of a number of seminars, wedged-in between, say, Penchak Silat on one hand and Ninjutsu on the other. BTW: I noticed in your post that you mentioned being in California. Is this a recent move? I was sure you were down in Texas? (BTW to Net-kas: Does anybody on the Net know what happened to the CHOSON-DO sponsored seminar that was suppose to happen here in Chicago a few weeks back?) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 11 From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 08:37:11 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Echanis's Knife Fighting Book Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Michael Tomlinson mentioned that he liked Echanis's books for their representation of angles in limb breaking techniuqes. Are there any Hwa Rang Do members or anyone familiar enough with Hwa Rang Do to comment on how well Echanis did in representing the Hwa Rang Do theory on motion, particularly in the opening of each of his books, but particularly in the "Knife Fighting" book? Craig also mentioned the rarity of the "Knife Fighting" book. I was surprised a couple of days ago when I saw it on ebay for about $99.00. Must be some demand for it. I also noted that a lot of the folks on Self Defense Forums refer a lot to Echanis and his works. Danny Dunn --__--__-- Message: 12 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:40:32 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] World Kido Federation and the Kidohae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Not to belabor the point, but on the World Hwa Rang Do Federation website it says: This is the home to the one and only governing organization of the martial arts Hwa Rang DoŽ and Tae Soo DoŽ. So it appears that Hwa Rang Do does not consider themselves governed by the World Kido Federation and it points out another art is missing from the roster (Tae Soo Do). How does an interested web-surfer like myself ever reconcile all the claims I see on the web from all these martial arts sites? Soo Bahk!! Cliff --__--__-- Message: 13 From: "Dunn, Danny J RASA" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 09:02:33 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Questions about Kidohae Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Steve Seo, I read your discussion of why taekwondo and Tang Soo Do were not included in the Kidohae charter in 1963. You seem to indicate that Tang Soo Do was excluded solely because of its being a derivitive of a Japanese Art versus Korean. Were other primarily striking arts included in the Kidohae? Also what Kido arts are included that are not based on Choi's Daito Ryu Akaijutsu? If Tang Soo Do was excluded simply because of its Japanese roots, why were Daito Ryu rooted arts included? Danny Dunn <<<<>>>>>>>> --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest