Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 03:24:15 -0500 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #338 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. (no subject) (ELIZABETH M KERR) 2. Elvis in MA (Daniel Oelz) 3. Re: Chicago Hapkido School (Jim McHie Jr.) 4. More Chosondo stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 5. Re: show me state games (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 6. Relative Bravery of North and South Koreans (fwd) (Ray Terry) 7. Re: Elvis in MA (Ray Terry) 8. Reply to Chiefmaster (Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com) 9. Link to Chicago Hapkido School (Maafa) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "ELIZABETH M KERR" To: Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 23:26:15 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] (no subject) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi Daniel, Last year I sprained my knee during a TKD testing sparring my daughter. You have to baby that ankle. Do what you can but don't push it to much, Tiger Balm and Ibuprofen helped along with a very understanding instructor who had his own knee problems. My instructor would have me sit in a chair in my usual spot with my leg propped up doing my punches and knife hands. He tried to get me as involved as possible. I'm 44, so it took me awhile to recooperate but I have and I am now a red belt. Don't give up. Remember two of the tenants are Perserverance and Indomitable Spirit. [demime 0.98e removed an attachment of type image/gif] --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:58:08 +0200 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Daniel Oelz Subject: [The_Dojang] Elvis in MA Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Chiefmaster Trudeau and all! I found your website very interesting and wondered about one thing - ELVIS in MA! (Link: http://www.wtswa.com/pic.html ) I never heard of it and of course this picture of Elvis is long before my beginning in MA. So I am very curious about what you all know about Elvis in MA. (which style did he study? Which grade did he receive?) Or was this picture just taken for press purposes or a visit in a dojang? Just curious, Daniel At 10:25 12.07.02 +0200, you wrote: >----- Original Message ----- >From: Troy Trudeau >To: hkd-tkd@martialartsresource.com >Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 9:37 PM >Subject: Reply to: KiDo Hae and Choson Do > > >I Remain Respectfully, > >Chiefmaster Troy Trudeau >World Tae Sool Won Association >www.wtswa.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Jim McHie Jr." To: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:23:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chicago Hapkido School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have a friend who just recently started at Hyun's school. He is the one who revived my interest in learning a martial art during law school, but ironically he had stopped training until just recently. I just kept telling him how much fun I was having learning and I think that helped. Anyway since he just started, he has the perspective of someone comig in new, and he says that he enjoys the school very much. He said he had to pay for 6 months, up front, non-refundable. I don't know if that was necessary, or if he just got a better deal for paying in that manner, but just to be aware of that. He also noted recently that belt promotions involve attendance, not belt testing. After a certain number of classes, you receive your belt promotion. He said he thought that resulted in some substandard black belts, but that it didn't impact what he was learning at least for now since I don't think those students are in a teaching capacity. Grandmaster Hyun's credentials seem very good. I was a bit jealous for a while, but I really like where I am at so that passed. Jim McHie, Jr. Brown belt http://www.horizonmartialarts-wellness.com/ --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 08:06:30 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] More Chosondo stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Ray and Ian: Very nice material on Chosondo in the FAQ area of DD. Thank you very much for the hard work (Ian) and the redirect (Ray). I also did a brief search of past posts and recommend that anyone who has further questions use the FAQ entry in conjunction with the post dated March 24, 2002. Very nice. BTW: To Ian: Since I continue to research the teaching methods and transmission venues for the KMA is there a way that you can characterize the manner in which the Chosondo material was passed from one successor to another? Let me frame this a bit for you in advance. Many times here on the DD when people talk about tradition and lineage the model for this seems to be either a kind of patrilinear succession as in the Japanese Ryu-Ha system (essentially succession passed from father to son) or a kind of corporate succession within the context of a kwan or "school" with the teacher selecting a successor from the student body who may or may not be related. Since the origin of Chosondo or Choson Kwon Bup seems to pre-date the Japanese Occupation I am guessing that the Ryu-Ha model would not have been available. Since the founder (Kim, Chon Ji) was a merchant I am guessing that he would not have used a private school ("suwon") as many of the Yangban did. I am also guessing that he would not have used village schools ("sadang") as these seem to have been dedicated more towards investing students with the virtues of Chinese culture and literature. Please understand that I am not trying to put you on the spot. However, there are not a few times when people report that such&such an art could be passed from generation to generation in some magical way, without benefit of the standard hallmarks of transmission such as uniform curriculum, attendance records, identified locations and sources and the like. You could do us a real service by providing what might be one of the rare cases that demonstrate how such a thing could have been accomplished. To date there are recorded instances of Korean peasants and slaves investing themselves in para-military training on their own time with their own resources but they are few and far between. I would be very intersted in your thoughts. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 5 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:08:57 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: show me state games Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net anyone attending/competing in the show me state games this year? theyre in columbia, missouri on the 20th. melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2001 10th Annual US Open TKD Championships --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:12:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Relative Bravery of North and South Koreans (fwd) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Forwarded message: Ray ------------------------------------------------------- I wonder if anyone involved in Korean Studies has ever noticed what must surely be one of the earliest mentions, at least in a Western language, of a regional-character difference between North and South Koreans: the claim that people "in the south of Korea have less bravery than those in the north," made by none other than Baron de Montesquieu, just a tad short of 200 years before the political division of the peninsula. I just blundered on it in "The Spirit of the Laws" http://www.constitution.org/cm/sol_17.htm#02 (See the 2nd paragraph) And the whole section makes interesting reading if for no other reason than the glimpse it gives into the well of misinformation that 18th-century Europeans had to draw from in their efforts to understand Asia. Not that things changed all that much in the next century: seems to me there are distinct echos of Montesquieu in what Marx had to say about the "Asiatic Mode of Production," "Asiatic Despotism," etc. David Kosofsky Washington, DC --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Elvis in MA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 11:14:54 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > I never heard of it and of course this picture of Elvis is long before my > beginning in MA. So I am very curious about what you all know about Elvis > in MA. (which style did he study? Which grade did he receive?) Or was this > picture just taken for press purposes or a visit in a dojang? I believe that he attained the rank of 8th Dan. Some/many claim that it was purchased, probably no surprise there. But he was apparently very much into martial arts for several years. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Cliff.Vaught@pmusa.com To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 14:19:44 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Reply to Chiefmaster Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Troy, *snip*as well as keeping the DD clean and free of negative comments and or issues, If you want to check someone out, ask them personally thru email and any other means necessary,*snip *snip we dont need the potshots and finger pointing on the digest, this forum is supposed to be a brotherhood and for learning, *snip I toyed with not replying at all, however, the way you came across, like some kind of Dojang Digest cop, I couldn't let it lie. What you are advocate avoiding is exactly what the Dojang Digest is for - talking issues, exchanging ideas, trading the stories and traditions as we know them - and sometimes calling a spade a spade. By the way, I have about 10 years of training in both Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan and Sayoc Kali. I've achieved the rank of Ee Dan in the Moo Duk Kwan. I'm not some wandering web-surfer come in to stir up trouble, nor am I some beginner in the arts. I have tremendous respect for all who have come before me and are there now as mentors and teachers. I've been a DD reader and contributor for about 3 years. There are often some very hard issues that come up and to think that we should all just blow sunshine up each other's backside all the time is pretty naive. This forum has discussed things like starting over at white belt; what is a Dan; what makes a Dan; how long does it take to make Dan; has the blackbelt been devalued with the martial arts explosion in the west; what is a grandmaster and who should lay claim to that title; the benefits or lack therein of one-step sparring or hoshinsul; histories of the different Korean styles & schools and the controversy surrounding them. It isn't always pretty - but I, and others who pay attention to the various claims made on the web, will question things. I'm not saying you, for example, are not deserving of the rank you've attained. I merely observed 2 things - one was that the website indicated that you were about 30 years old, not 30 years of experience - and that in Soo Bahk Do Moo Duk Kwan it takes a minimum of 32 years to achieve 7th Dan provided you pass every test along the way. You did it in 20 years. In addition, the KiDo Hae made a claim to govern 98% of all Korean martial artists - of course that excludes all of Tae Kwon Do, Tang Soo Do, and Soo Bahk Do - some pretty large organizations in Korean Martial arts. Don't you think that calls for questioning? And if I want to hear what the rest of the readership thinks, the DD is the forum for it. How about titles? You have "Chief Master". Is that above Master but below Grandmaster? Is grandmaster something you attain after years of service, ranking, or by vote? Is a grandmaster the head of a dojang, an organization, or the most senior practitioner of a style? What about Kwan Jang Nim, Choong Jang Nim, Supreme Grandmaster, co-Grandmasters, etc., etc. - isn't it all quite confusing? But all valid questions - and since that information is out there for the world to read on the web, it should be honest and accurate. By the way, I have communicated privately with Steve Seo and Kat on my postings. If I feel something is too incendiary to post, I go direct or go to Ray. This isn't some bureaucracy where we cover stuff up if it doesn't make us feel good. I believe, based on my experience with this forum, that what I wrote had valid questions and was pretty mild. Soo Bahk!! Cliff --__--__-- Message: 9 From: "Maafa" To: Date: Fri, 12 Jul 2002 15:24:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Link to Chicago Hapkido School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I couldn't get into the link. -- __--__-- Message: 4 Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 15:21:00 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: Victor Cushing Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Chicago Hapkido School Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This school is run under the direction of Grandmaster K. S Hyun, who was my teacher for 15 years. A web site http://www.hapkido.ws/southschool.htm will give you specifics on this location and has links that give information on the staff as well as other particulars. This is probably the oldest continuously operation Hapkido school in the Chicago area. Grandmaster Hyun's school during my tenure there was an excellent facility with dedicated instructors and a base of adult students a good portion of whom were active duty law enforcement personnel for whom the techniques and attitude had to be street real and not sport or demonstration stuff. Stop in, check it out, and say "hello" for me. Vic Cushing http://modernhapkido.org --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest