Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 17:36:43 -0500 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #358 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.8 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Sender: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.8 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net List-Help: List-Post: X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Subscribe: List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Unsubscribe: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Moving on... (Ray Terry) 2. Re: Todd Miller Seminar (Stanley Wojcoski) 3. Taught the Wrong Form (TeachingInChina@aol.com) 4. TKD World Cup Results (Ray Terry) 5. Time in rank, politics and what you can do on the mat.... (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 6. Master and Grandmaster Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 7. RE: Coffee Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 8. Copyright Stuff (Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov) 9. Hooray for logic! (Timothy Seitz) 10. An Apology to Joseph F. Connolly II (Burdick, Dakin Robert) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 11:07:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Moving on... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Folks, it is time to move off the KMAIA discussion and on to other matters. Both sides of this discussion have had time to present their thoughts and concerns, so let us not belabor the point. FWIW, I privately discussed my findings, to date, with two members of the aforementioned group back in 2001 mid-December. I felt it important to wait a reasonable amount of time to give them adequate opportunity to respond. It is now time to move on. Thanks for understanding. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Stanley Wojcoski" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:00:55 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Todd Miller Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Miller wrote: >I will be doing a Jungki Hapkido & Guhapdo Seminar in CONN. Could we have little more info please. When, where, $$, etc. I would also appreciate a very brief description of these MAs. I live in CT and have a non-existant travel budget, so this caught my attention. Thanks, Stan Wojcoski 1st Dan WTF Garcia's TKD _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com --__--__-- Message: 3 From: TeachingInChina@aol.com Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:44:53 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Taught the Wrong Form Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Can the list help me with this situation? I have been practicing a form that is a requirement for my rank (7thgup yellow belt Tae Kwon Do), It seems that if 2 instructors, one a brown belt, the other a black belt taught me the form wrong. My Grandmaster saw me practicing this at the Dojo and told me the form was incorrect. Another black belt, a 4th degree, was sent by the Grandmaster to teach me the form. I was having so much trouble with it that I became frustrated and a little irritated while the blackbelt kept telling me I am not doing it correctly. The Grandmaster told the whole class that the black and brown belts are not living up to their teaching potential and they need to learn how to properly execute the forms as well as teach the students. I am concerned that in the future, other black belts will teach me the wrong thing, especially since Grandmaster will retire in 2007. What is the best way for me to learn the forms properly? Should I just go to one person who seems to be correct in teaching and executing the forms? Thanks Landa 7th gup yellow TKD --__--__-- Message: 4 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang), policedo@martialartsresource.net (Policedo) Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 12:57:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] TKD World Cup Results Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net 2002 World Cup Results Tokyo, Japan July 16-19 Male Division Female Division Fin 1 Jin Hee Kim (Korea) 1 Chen Shin Hsin Chinese (Taipei) 2 Juan A. Ramos (Spain) 2 Soo Yang Kim (Korea) 3 Feizoriah Nafjam (Iran) 3 Womwimon Phuangphee (Thailand) 3 Christophe Civiletti (France) 3 Eva Marie Ditan (Philippines) Fly 1 Seok Hwa Ko (Korea) 1 Wu Yen Ni Chinese (Taipei) 2 Kivanc Dingsalman (Turkey) 2 Mandy Meloon (USA) 3 Jose Luis Mendez (Spain) 3 Wang Ying (China) 3 Behzad Kanjobeh (Iran) 3 Lana Baneil (Croatia) Bantam 1 Dae Hyu Ko (Korea) 1 Jae Eun Jung (Korea) 2 Omid Gholamzadeh (Iran ) 2 Li Xiaojian (China) 3 Peter Lopez (USA) 3 Ivana Vujcic (Croatia) 3 Kiyoteru Higuchi (Japan) 3 Chonnapas Premwaew (Brazil) Feather 1 Carlo Molfetta (Italy) 1 Iridia Salazar (Mexico) 2 Carlo Massimino(Australia) 2 Carmen Marton(Australia) 3 Dennis Bekkers (Netherland) 3 Hauide Bikcin Tosun (Turkey) 3 Niyamaddin Pashayev Azerbaijan 3 Diana Lopez (USA) Light 1 Hadi Saebonehkohal (Iran) 1 Eun Kyung Jun (Korea) 2 Joon Sik Shin (Korea) 2 Natalia Silva (Brazil) 3 Steven Lopez (USA) 3 Mouna Ben Abder (Morocco) 3 Rashad Ahmadov (Azerbaijan) 3 Karine Sergerie (Canada) Welter 1 Majid Aflakikhamseh (Iran) 1 Hye Mi Kim (Korea) 2 Dong Hyuk Jung (Korea) 2 Yoriko Okamoto (Japan) 3 Thijs Oude Luttikhuis (Netherland) 3 Simona Hradil (USA) 3 Mohammed Ebnotalib (Germany) 3 Luisa Arnanz (Spain) Middle 1 Karami (Iran) 1 Nathalia Ivanova (Russia) 2 Tanrikulu (Turkey) 2 Eaitziber Los Arcos (Spain) 3 Michael Borot (France) 3 Yang Wen Chen (Chinese Taipei) 3 Cheon Deok Park (Korea) 3 Mounia Bourguigue (Maroc) Heavy 1 Pasquale Gentil (France) 1 Hyeon Kyung Shin (Korea) 2 Daniel TRENTON (Australia) 2 Natasa Veznar (Croatia) 3 Seok Hun Lee (Korea) 3 Maryia Zhurauskaya (Belorusse) 3 Ferry Greevink Pays (Bas) 3 Daniela Castrignano (Italy) --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:56:56 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Time in rank, politics and what you can do on the mat.... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have been lurking for a while as things have been busy. I teach every class myself, clean the windows, vacuum, clean the bathrooms, etc.. So I have not had much time to post, but I have had a great laugh at the current trend over 'my organization can beat up your organization' or who 'is the KMAIA'. Never once has someone come into my dojang asking my political affiliation who did not have a hidden agenda. When a new student starts they do not care what hapkido organization the dojang is affiliated with; at first, do they even understand that they are studying hapkido! They don't care! They are here to practice. After their first gup test is about the time they starting asking about the USKMAF because that is who certifies them. Master West's signature as well as my wife's and mine are on their certificates. Does this really matter to them? I have many students who hold dan ranking in other arts (usually in taekwondo), they are interested in discussing these things, but within a year many of my regular students have all met such people as Master West, Master Whalen, Master Timmerman, Master Booth, Dr. Kimm He-young, etc. They still do not know that they are now being taught but such people as the aforementioned list who are all with different organizations! Does it matter to them? Do you think any of the students care at all? Am I going to be intimidated into thinking my 5th dan from Master West is not valid and that all the rank I have awarded to students over these past few decades is useless? Please. When I first put on a white belt in 1974 there was not a MA organization in every street corner. If you practice hapkido in any form or fashion my door is always open only if you are here to practice, and I do not care what your organization is, nor am I interested in seeing a piece of paper. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 6 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:09:29 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Master and Grandmaster Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Wendy: "......Hi there, could someone explain to me how masters and grand masters get to become them and which martial arts do you find them in?...." Think good thoughts, then tap your heels together three times. :-) Seriously, Wendy, and in all respect to your questions, the use of the titles "master" and "grandmaster" are contrivances developed by commercial interests to promote a hierarchy for arts in which none existed prior to the beginnings of the 20th century. There is nothing wrong with believing in such titles if that is what you enjoy. IMHE I have found that most individuals follow people or personalities not titles and that the greater number of people for whom such things are important usually have not developed anything else to hold on to in their lives. FWIW. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 7 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:03:08 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Coffee Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Eric: ".......Thanks for the info, but I have a question. If caffeine in soda is bad, what about the caffeine in coffee or green tea? I rather occasionally drink coffee and have tea every other day or so. Does caffeine have any value nutritionally? I drink plenty of water, 3-4 qts daily. Does that help, or affect the end results? ....." Good questions. I can answer by saying that when a drink is socially accepted or even socially promoted there can be some real problems in appreciating what it is that drink does for or against us. For instance alcoholic beverages are commonly accepted in the US culture and sometimes people even gauge how "tough" they are by how much they can imbibe. However, whether I can drink a lot or drink a little, ingesting alcohol is not something that is particularly good for us simply because at its base, alcohol is a toxic chemical. Societal attitudes simply can't change that. When you ask about caffiene, its, of course, important to remember that not all caffienes are identical and not all will act on the body to the same extent. However, in our culture caffiene is used to induce an artificial state of excitation and give us that "jump start" in the morning, or buoy us up in the middle afternoon. If by nutritional value you mean does it have any vitamins or minerals that aid in maintaining the integrity of the bodys' metabolism in and of themselves, I would have to say "no." What is more, brewing coffee and tea is often done with hot water or milk which can also serve to leach minerals from the container that it is prepared in such as aluminum pots or pans. Many popular beverages which can be purchased ready-to-drink also have a number of stablizers and emulsifiers to add to the shelf life none of which that have a real nutritional value. On the good side, though Eric, you are on the right track with the water. The average human should be drinking about 8 (8oz) glasses of water each day (total of about 64ozs) and I understand that there is a newer suggested level that correlates to the age and body weight but maybve someone else has that formula. Don't wait until you are thirsty though, and try to drink water which is cool rather than cold. Oooppps. Gotta go. I think I just saw a guy from STARBUCKS flashing his badge outside my office. I think my wife turned me in! :-) Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Bruce.Sims@med.va.gov To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:12:10 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Copyright Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Charles: ".... Great post, can I cut and paste it into my next student newsletter?...." Absolutely. Also see if you can get Jere to send you a copy of a similar entry in his dochang newsletter on the same subject. I think he did his a little better. Best Wishes, Bruce --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:24:22 -0500 From: Timothy Seitz To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hooray for logic! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Thank you, Brian Beach, for relying on the immutable laws of logic and reasoning to make your point. You are certainly correct about the circularity of the argument. HOORAY for logic! I'm not an illegitimate martial artist after all! I urge all members of this discussion group to take an introductory logic course at your local community college. Sincerely, Timothy Seitz Assistant Professor, dept of Philosophy, Illinois State University Head Instructor, Kuk Sool Won at the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign >Message: 9 >Date: Tue, 23 Jul 2002 11:46:04 -0400 >From: Brian Beach >To: >Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Gary - Dakin et al >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Gary you won't win any arguments (discussions) this way - > >"All LEGITIMATE traditional Korean martial arts instructors >and dojang operators are members of the KMAIA" > >so the only way to be legitimate is to be a member of the KMAIA > > >begging the question - petitio principii > >Circular reasoning. The "informal fallacy" of (explicitly or implicitly) >assuming the truth of the conclusion of an argument as one of the premises >employed in an effort to demonstrate its truth. --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 15:39:52 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] An Apology to Joseph F. Connolly II Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net PLEASE READ THIS! On Monday, July 22, 2002, I posted the results of my searches among various web pages to the Dojang_Digest mailing list. This was not intended as a scholarly publication, nor did I purport to represent Indiana University in any way, but still I must acknowledge that additional research off the web and less flippancy would have prevented any injury to Dr. Connolly. I hope that this email (which will be posted on Dojang_Digest mailing list as per his request) will serve as adequate apology for my lack of discretion. In that email, entitled "Gary Pointer & KMAIA: A Web Quest," I included the following comment, which I believe was the source of the various calls Dr. Connolly received concerning his reputation: "Connolly lists the following degrees behind his name: 'B.A., LL.B., J.D., F.S.M.A.' Frankly, it is a little weird that he would list both his B.A. and his J.D. (Doctorate of Jurisprudence). I've got to wonder where he got the latter degree." I truly regret making that statement, not only because it hinted at impropriety that does not exist, but also because it caused Dr. Connolly unnecessary hardship. Dr. Connolly was exactly right in taking me to task for inaccurate research, and he can be assured I will avoid such comments in the future. For the sake of the martial arts, I am actually very happy to report that Dr. Connolly not only has his J.D. from the Blackstone School of Law in Chicago (1977) but actually has many more credits to his name, some of which are listed in Marquis "Who's Who in America, 2001," page 1030. Dr. Connolly not only earned his J.D. and did postdoctoral work, but was also a certified EMT and firefighter, and served in various other public safety positions up to and including service as the Director of Public Safety of Poinciana, Florida, in 1985-6 and the Director of the Royal National Lifeboat Institution in Ireland. He is a former combat lieutenant, an active member of the Boy Scouts of America since 1954, and a Master Sergeant in the Army's Special Forces from 1961-1996. He was decorated with the Purple Heart with two oak leaf clusters and 24 other U.S. and foreign military decorations or citations. His accomplishments go on and on. It goes without saying that reading all of this about Dr. Connolly made me feel truly low for having insulted a man who has done so much for his country. I am grateful that Dr. Connolly gave me the opportunity to retract the statement and offer an apology, and believe that his graciousness in this matter is simply one more indication of his education and training. I hope that readers of this post will distribute it to any and all who may have read the previous post. I also hereby give Dr. Connolly permission to post this public apology on his website or reproduce it any format that he might find necessary to remove any dispersions upon his character. Sincerely, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest