Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:45:02 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #385 - 8 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Re: Dojangs in California, Las Vegas & Colorado (JW) 2. I'm a Psycho (CKCtaekwon@cs.com) 3. visiting other dojangs (michael tomlinson) 4. Re: Difference in Aikido styles (Rupert, are you still around?) (JSaportajr@aol.com) 5. Re: cross-training (JSJohnJr@aol.com) 6. Re: Cross-Training, Air Conditioning, Teaching, Uniforms Outside (SallyBaughn@aol.com) 7. Hwang Kee (ramon Navarro) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 22:50:16 -0700 From: JW To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Dojangs in California, Las Vegas & Colorado Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net California is a big place. I'm in San Diego, California and would happy to introduce your family to a number of Dojangs here. Contact me directly for referals. If you will not be in San Diego, California - let me know where you will be and I'll see what I can do for you. Yours in training, Joel S. Weissler Mario Karvouniaris wrote: >Hi All, > >I'm heading to sunny California later this year from Australia, (taking >the kids to Disneyland, Las Vegas and possibly Colorado. At this stage >it would be great to let my kids (Anna 5 & Rick 8 ) experience TKD >training in another Dojang / country. It would be great for them to see >differences / comparision in TKD training techniques. > >The kids are only young, I truly believe phyically and spirtually >development should start at a young age, with the right guidance they >will develop into better people > >Anna has only commenced her TKD training in the last few months, whilst >Rick has been studying martial arts since he was 4. He is a devoted >student dedicated to the Arts and his training. > >Could you please let me know if there are any Dojangs in these area's >that would allow the kids to train during our brief period we are in the >United State. > >Thanks Very Much > >Regards >Mario >_______________________________________________ >The_Dojang mailing list >The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net >http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 2 From: CKCtaekwon@cs.com Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:16:02 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] I'm a Psycho Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This is a true story. Happened to me last night. Tonight while I was walking around talking to the students a few minutes prior to the rank test beginning, it thundered quite loud, and one of my 8 year olds asked me if I thought it was going to rain. I told her, of course it will rain, it always rains during our rank tests. Sure enough, about five minutes late it began to rain hard. As I walked by her, she said with enthusiasm, "Mr. Pieratt! You were right. It is raining! You're a Psycho!". Gary Pieratt Castroville Karate Club www.askarate.com Success in life is largely the result of habit. Have a Great Day! --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 14:38:47 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] visiting other dojangs Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net If I belonged to a Martial Arts school and the leader of that school or anyone associated with it told me it was forbidden for me to visit other schools or training venues first I would probably laugh in their face and then I would probably tell them that they didn't own me and I will go and do what I please and then I would dump my affiliation with them. To each his own but IMHO know one regardless of what MA they teach has the power to restrict your movement or thought processes and if they try that you better get away from them because that is not a healthy open learning environment... sounds more like it hinges on a cult. I believe in loyalty but not subservience. That should make your huge Red Flags Go Up! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: JSaportajr@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:12:27 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Difference in Aikido styles (Rupert, are you still around?) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I have recently encountered something that caught my interest. Can any one tell me more about what different styles of Aikido there are and what are the essential differences between these styles in technique? It seems at least that some styles rely more on whole body displacement of the attacker's balance while others use more joint locks like Hapkido, some styles use finishing joint locks, other's do not. The other day I happened to be at a gym connected to where I work and I saw some people practicing Aikido and we had a chat. I learned a little about the different styles of Aikido. It seems that there are a couple of styles with some substantial differences. The people I met were practicing Kokikai Aikido, which involves mainly unbalancing the attacker using one's whole body to displace the attacher's balance and throw him or her or knock the person over. There is a minimal use of joint locks, with more focus on whole body, though they did us sankyo, nikyo, etc. They said that AikiKai Aikido uses more joint locks. They also said that Kokikai practices more against realistic attacks such as jabs and kicks than some more tradition Aikido styles that defend against attacks that were common in the samurai era but are not representative of modern forms of attack. This is because the founder of this form of Aikido, who was a student of Tomiki and then O-sensie came to the US and found that he was not able to effectively defend against jabs and kicks as he had never trained to defend against these sorts of attacks before. So, he developed a style of Aikido that focuses on defending against attacks seen in modern combat. Hearing this, I thought that this style might be similar to Hapkido, but it was very different in that it focused more on whole body use and very little on joint locks. We compared a few techniques and I did some joint locks transitioning or flowing from one joint lock to another and then to another, bringing the person to the ground using joint locks, and they had never seen this before. Incidentally, one thing about the style of Aikido I saw was that they did not use finishing techniques. They threw the attacker then walked away, and if he wanted to get up and fight again, then fine, they would just throw him again. Well, that is nuts. First, you may not be as lucky the second time as the first, so if you get someone down you shouldn't risk a second chance. Second, I have been taught to maintain control of the attacker after you throw him or her, as he or she may have a knife or gun. I had a jujitsu teacher who had a friend who was an AikidoKa. This person was attacked and he threw the attacker fairly far and turned his back to walk away. The attacher pulled out a gun and killed him. Third, with multiple attackers, you have to get rid of the first attacker and make sure he does not get up to fight again while you are facing the second attacker. These guys who I met run the risk being philosophically pure, and dead. Still, there was a lot to what these practitioners were doing that was very cool. Using ones whole body to take an opponent's balance (Chinese boxer's do this a lot too) may some times have advantages over using joint locks in a self-defense situation (in my Hapkido training we certainly did have techniques that used the whole body to take the attacker's balance, but the emphasis was more on joint locks & throws). It made me want to know more about what different styles of Aikido there are and what are the essential differences in technique. Can any one tell me more about this? Also, I am curious about opinions regarding the use of joint locks versus using whole body to take the opponents balance to throw him or knock him down, and the advantages and disadvantages of this over using joint locks in a similar situation. Jose --__--__-- Message: 5 From: JSJohnJr@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 11:25:51 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: cross-training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net For what it's worth, I thought I would throw my "two cents" in here. With respect to cross-training...... I don't understand why an instructor would, or should, feel threatened by a student wanting to learn more about defending themselves be it in the form of ground fighting, stick fighting, boxing or what have you from another school/instructor. If an instructor feels threatened by such an idea perhaps he or she should look internally at themselves and ask s0me hard questions. I've trained with some excellent Masters/Senseis who actually encouraged their students to learn as much as they could from respected sources. They in turn could return to "the fold" to share their new-found knowledge with fellow students. One only need look to the late Bruce Lee and study his philosophy/habits on cross-training. I believe that cross-training will only to help the student to grow and even gain a respect for the other styles/forms that are out there. Humbly, Joe --__--__-- Message: 6 From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 13:31:31 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Cross-Training, Air Conditioning, Teaching, Uniforms Outside Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net These are opinions only, based on 12 years of going to the dojo or dojang with my son. Agreement is not necessary or required. : ) Cross-Training. Why not? The only problem will arise if you mix up the two (or three or more) styles when doing forms (kata/poomse) or when sparring (DO NOT punch to the face in Olympic-style sparring, I don't care what's allowed in Karate). My son holds a 3rd Dan in Shotokan Karate and still practices the forms (although he doesn't compete at Karate tournaments anymore). He also holds a 3rd Dan in Taekwondo. He now has a Taekwondo school of his own and competes at Taekwondo tournaments. Many of the aspects of day-to-day running the school and teaching are based on what he learned in his Karate training (which, although they didn't espouse 5 tenets, IMO taught the students to LIVE the 5 tenets far better than we've seen in Taekwondo - apologies to anyone who has had a better experience and feels they should take offense). Again IMO, cross-training is a student's choice - not that of the master. If the master or head-of-school believes the cross-training is affecting the way a student performs at his school, that's a subject for discussion. Air Conditioning. We've been to schools that had A/C and schools that didn't. As a spectator/parent, I appreciate the ones that do have A/C. Usually, the A/C is kept at a level to keep the parents/spectators comfortable but one which will allow the students to have a good sweat before the class if over. The thinking goes: if you don't keep the parents minimally comfortable, many of them won't bring their child back to classes. Maybe you can learn something from a green belt and maybe not. When my son started Shotokan Karate, the instructor's rule was that you begin teaching as soon as you reach yellow belt, teaching students up to the belt next below you. Thus, a yellow belt could teach a white belt. A green could teach orange, yellow, and white, etc. IMO, it's an outstanding way to make sure a student will be able to pass on what he/she has learned on their journey. Caveat: In that dojo (and in my son's dojang), any student is welcome to ask any other student for assistance as long as they do so with courtesy. Uniforms outside has been a no-no in every school we've been to. There are several reasons for this - you can easily get your uniform dirty while pumping gas or doing the myriad things people do, it does seem to be a kind of "show-off" thing, and you are always subject to trouble from the Yahoo who thinks he can take a "big, bad Black Belt" and wants to try right there. Sally Obviously, these are my opinions and are based on my experiences only. You may disagree because of your experiences. That's fine. If we can't find a common ground, we can agree to disagree. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 21:34:41 -0700 (PDT) From: ramon Navarro To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hi,"Chris Holmes" and be blessed. G/M Ki Hwang Kee was soposed to have been born in 1912 so he would have been 90 years old to our calendar but since Korean birthn makes it automatic 1 year old then he was 92 years young at the age of his farewell to the mision from God. Hi did have bith organisations but was more recognised by the Soo Bahk Do organisation. The Hyung or Forms were the same. Tang Soo Do is a legend that is used to tell the children that their behaving needs to be better or the Tang So Do man will take him ( this is like teling a child that if he does not behave he will be taken by the Boogy Man )also it was a generic term about it being a martial art ! Ray Terry, You to be blessed. You are not wrong in the sence of what and why he changed back to Soo Bahk Do. The ones that really could say this are his sons. I heard that he had 5 of them and the youngest one was the one most involved in the martial arts. This could be worth researching ! Ramon Navarro Hapkido SabomNim ( Tang soo Do KyoSa/Instructor - inactive officially ) Academia de Hapkido SongMooKwan Hapkido Los Llanos de Curundu, Panama. Answer to today's Topic: 1. Hwang Kee (Chris Holmes) > > 6. Re: Hwang Kee (Ray Terry) > >-- __--__-- > >Message: 1 >From: "Chris Holmes" >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 23:32:20 -0500 >Subject: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >Hello all, >I have a few quick questions about Gm Kee? First does anyone know how old >he was? He had to be late 80's to early 90's I would think. Secondly why >did he change the name of his art back to Soo Bak Do? >Did he change anything from Moo Du Kwan Tang Soo Do? >Thanks to all that care to respond! >Sincerly Chris Holmes > >P.S Thanks for the info. a while back Mr. Terry. > >I also need to thank Mr. Brian Ingold, Mr. West, and Mr. Kirk Lawson for >information they have given me on past posts. Sorry I did not send out >thanks sooner and sorry if I missed anyone. > > >Message: 6 >From: Ray Terry >Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hwang Kee >To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 13:20:49 -0700 (PDT) >Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > >> I have a few quick questions about Gm Kee? First does anyone know how old >> he was? He had to be late 80's to early 90's I would think. > >I believe he was ~89. > >> Secondly why did he change the name of his art back to Soo Bak Do? >> Did he change anything from Moo Du Kwan Tang Soo Do? > >My take on it is that it was primarily so that he could claim the name >Soo Bahk Do for himself and the MDK. Tang Soo Do is generic term that he >adopted from the Chung Do Kwan. > >Ray Terry >rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. 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