Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 01:28:29 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #393 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. CDT Stuff (Alagna, Steven M) 2. Re: electronic scoring (Mark M. Smith) 3. RE: KSW Curriculum (Richard Zaruba) 4. RE>KSW curriculum (MW) 5. Getting help from higher ranks (J.R. West) 6. electronic scoring (michael tomlinson) 7. Fighting (Rudy Timmerman) 8. Re: Electronic Scoring (SallyBaughn@aol.com) 9. off to Miss-ipi (Ray Terry) 10. Happy Birthday GM Timmerman (Troy Trudeau) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Alagna, Steven M" To: "'the_dojang@martialartsresource.net'" Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:43:37 -0700 Subject: [The_Dojang] CDT Stuff Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net James stated: >>I can say that when I went through my own TMI course that all of the trainees there were very proficient with CDT by the time that they left.>> Can you explain some of the strategy that you use to keep it non-lethal. Of course you cannot guarantee it to be non-lethal, accidents happen. Steve Alagna --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:12:19 -0400 To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net From: "Mark M. Smith" Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: electronic scoring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I am sending this again because I did not see my reply in the last two digests. At 01:28 AM 8/13/2002 -0700, you wrote: >What type of electronic scoring are you referring to? I don't know about any >other sport, but for Taekwondo it still takes 4 corner judges to operate the >system used for olympic sparring. Actually, only 3 judges are used for electronic scoring in Olympic Taekwondo competition. The change from 4 corner judges to 3 corner judges was made when electronic scoring was introduced. The problem was it takes 2 judges to award a point. With the electronic scoring if all 4 judges pushed the button to score a point, but not exactly at the same time, often 2 points would be recorded by the electronic scoring system (ie 2 judges record 1 point while the other 2 judges combine to score the other point). With 3 corner judges this is not possible. > What type of scoring does fencing use? I am not familiar with >fencing, so I wouldn't know. Electronic scoring in fencing uses a completed electric circuit to indicate a "touch". The foil is wired and the vest is wired. When the tip of the foil touches the vest, the circuit is complete and a "touch" is scored. No judges required (at least to indicate a point). Taekwondo is also working on this type of scoring system, but it is a slightly more difficult problem. First, the force of the blow is important. Second the weapons, (feet and hands) are impractical to "wire". Thus, even if a chest protector that can correctly sense the force of a clean strike versus a push (not easy at all) is constructed, there is still no way to tell if the contact was made by the foot or the shin. There is also the problem of the amount of force. Clearly, the amount of force required by to heavyweights to score a point should be more than for two fin weights, but how do you calibrate the force and make sure it is exactly the same for both competitors. Though there are some good prototype systems available, the consensus is that it is still to easy to "cheat" the system. The fear is that the electronic sensors will reward techniques that are not considered "good" taekwondo. If you think this is a silly worry, then you should check out the debates in fencing about the changes in technique that happened when electronic scoring was introduced. It is a real concern. Respectfully, Mark M. Smith Merrimack, NH --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Richard Zaruba" To: Subject: RE: [The_Dojang] KSW Curriculum Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 15:41:50 -0500 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net >Hello all, > >I understand KSW changed its curriculum a few years back. Can anyone send >me or post on dojang digest the old and new KSW curriculum? > >Andy The change was just in the underbelt level and requires fewer techniques as you progress. But you now have all techniques from Dee Eue Bohk Soo to Dahn Doh Mahk Ki to learn as a Black-Brown belt. Richard Zaruba --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: 14 Aug 02 15:40:27 -0500 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>KSW curriculum Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Yes they made some changes however, they did not reduce the cirriculum to BB.Yhey reduced the amount needed to proceed to the next level. You still need to know all the material to obtain BB, you just rise in rank faster. That is until you get to Dan Bo level, where you will stay there longer. Our school did not change and the following is a list of the current adult(13+) requirements at Meyerland KSW. They are listed by color:requirement to proceed to next belt -hyun di (white): ki bon soo /ki cho hyung / basic jok sool , soo ki, nak bub -no rang di (yellow): sohn mok soo / eue bok soo / ahn sohn mok soo / cho geup hyung -chung di (blue): maek chi ki / maek cha ki / ju muk maga ki bon soo / joong geup hyung / break with middle spin kick -hong di (red): joong geup sohn mok soo / ap eue bok soo / go geup hyung/ middle level nak bub / break with high/low spin kicks (no stops in between) -ja di (brown): di eue bok soo / kwan jul li ki / dae geup hyung / break with high / low / side spin kicks (no stops in between) -dan bo (black brown): too ki / mok jul li ki / bang too ki / yang sohn mok soo / ssang soo / dan do mak ki / geum moo hyung / advanced nak bub / break with high / low / side spins & hook kick (no stops in between) jkn michael whalen -KSW -------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "J.R. West" To: "Dojang Digest" Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:00:13 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Getting help from higher ranks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I would like to agree with Dr. Sanders (SSHapkido) that the "just ask someone two belts higher" is a great way to accomplish dual goals...First, it tells the newer student exactly where to go to get help, and, second, it puts the other student on the spot to come up with a good answer to the same questions they were asking a few months back. On another note, many SOPs change with the growth of your school or class, for example, if every lower ranking student came directly to me for technical questions, I would NEVER have time to teach or get anything else accomplished during class times, but years ago I would attempt to field every question that came my way. Several years ago, following a clinic, a senior student of a well known Korean master was espousing all the things he would do if and when he ever had his own class, and of course, he thought I should do all these things myself in my school in order to make it "more successful". One of the things he mentioned was the idea of spending 10 minutes every week with each student to discuss his or her individual progress, and couldn't understand why I told him that this wouldn't work in my case. After being pressed for an answer, I went through the math of the problem....250 adult students X 10 minutes per week equals 2,500 minutes, divided by 60 minutes per hour equals almost 42 hours per week in conference without ever getting out on the mat, doing any paperwork or answering letters, telephone calls, or e-mails..J.R. West www.hapkido.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "michael tomlinson" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 21:10:57 +0000 Subject: [The_Dojang] electronic scoring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Wow, I thought electronic scoring involved meeting a woman over the internet? Tells you how much I know! Michael Tomlinson _________________________________________________________________ Join the world’s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail. http://www.hotmail.com --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:29:49 -0400 From: "Rudy Timmerman" To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Fighting Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Danny writes: > But I have to agree with Master Terry that there are a lot of people with very > little or no formal training that are very competent fighters. Back in the late sixties, we used to have an open sparring division where all ranks could compete. Funny to watch how few black belts actually got in there to mix it up with the lower rank belts. Fear of losing to a lower rank got in the way major time. Steve writes about "getting away". Steve, my story dates back to a time where one had little to fear of getting shot or sued. The majority of Canadians simply did not even think in those terms. We could walk into a bar, get into one heck of a good brawl to test technique, and after the fight sit down with the guys you just fought with to hoist a beer. Things are a lot different now, and your suggestions are pretty much what I tell my students to do. Ahhhh, the good old days:) Sincerely, Rudy --__--__-- Message: 8 From: SallyBaughn@aol.com Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:16:13 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Electronic Scoring Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Chris and Kim both wrote to explain in relatively great detail why electronic hogus won't work. As I stated in my original post, I haven't seen them and don't know how well they work -- only that a company in Arizona is supposed to be working on development of them. If they can be made to work within the WTF framework, I maintain it would be good for Olympic-style competition. As an aside, obviously you couldn't see me smile when I made the comment about "I wuz robbed by the ref!" This has been a joke in my family for the nearly 12 years my son has been competing. It seems that no matter how poorly some people fight vs.how well their competition fights, they've always been "robbed." Sally --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 17:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] off to Miss-ipi Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well, I'm about to head off to the 17th International Hapkido and Korean Martial Arts Seminar and All the Grits You Can Eat Festival. I'll try to keep the list going, but may end up being a bit busy eating and drinking and, oh yes, doing martial arts... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 18:43:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Troy Trudeau To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Happy Birthday GM Timmerman Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In Response to: Happy Birhtday GM Timmerman, I would like to wish GM Timmerman a Big and Happy Birthday, Master Timmerman, I really appreciate the support and guidance that you give me and my students, As My Grandmaster , you have shown me the true meaning of martial spirit and expert guidance, I will be coming to the Can Am tournament and I will share a toast with you in October, Again thanks for your support,guidance and friendship, Sincerely, Troy --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest