Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 22:40:05 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #398 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: RO X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Just curious - may have mised a post (Daves MA Mail) 2. Re: 8 glasses of water? (Daves MA Mail) 3. Seminar (Westport Academy Of Taekwondo) 4. Whoa, Not Quite... (Charles Veuleman) 5. Re: Teaching ( asking two ranks higer)- clarification. (SSHapkido@aol.com) 6. RE: Best Martial Art Supply (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 7. Re: Best/SMS phone number (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 8. Re: History of the Chung Do Kwan (Taekwondo) (Tom Kennelly) 9. Re: Jhoon Rhee's name (HorangiHapKiDo@aol.com) 10. Kent's Post (Charles Veuleman) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Daves MA Mail" To: Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:54:54 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Just curious - may have mised a post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net What ever happened on the New York bill to have all Martial Arts schools Registered. Did it pass/fail/etc? Dave Hacker --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Daves MA Mail" To: Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 21:53:50 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 8 glasses of water? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 8 glasses of water? A follow-up. Two things of extreme interest on this. 1 - The Boston Marathon Runner how died because she drank too much water.. http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/225/metro/Marathon_runner_s_death_linked_t o_excessive_fluid_intake+.shtml 2 - I just heard a Dr. on the radio, he's about to release his study on the drinking of fluids. Apparently several years ago he went on a search to find out about the 8 glass rule. It turns out that in the 70's it was an off-hand remark from a Dr. with no scientific studies done. Since then he's been doing the studies, will be publishing his results. In brief the amount of fluid one has to drink a day is dependant on body weight. If you exceed that by a significant amount you will get "water poisoning" which usually kills. he fluid does not have to be water. His study show no fuildity absorption difference between water, coke, coffee, etc. Dave Hacker I'm not a doctor, but I've been known to play doctor. --__--__-- Message: 3 To: The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 22:59:25 -0400 From: Westport Academy Of Taekwondo Subject: [The_Dojang] Seminar Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Todd Miller of the Jung Ki Kwan will be coming to Westport to demonstrate and teach the Korean Sword Art of Kuhapdo and Jung Ki Hapkido. Where: Sherwood Island State Park When: Saturday, August 24 from 11:00-2:00pm Cost: $40.00 /includes Mokdo (Wooden Training Sword) Some info on Master Miller: Master Miller has been training for 18 years in Martial Arts and since 1997 has been traveling to Korea to train with Choi, Yong Sool's longest running student, Grand Master Lim, Hyun Su. Among Master Millers accomplishments are... *Direct student of Grand Master Lim, Hyun Su. *Awarded 3rd level Instructor certificate from GM Lim. *US Director of the Jung Ki Kwan *Northeast Director of the United States Sword Federation *1st place in the Hapkido division of the 1st Choi, Yong Sool memorial championships. Monday is the last day for registration. Don't miss out on this one time event. ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/. --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:39:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Whoa, Not Quite... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Danny, Thank you for the post. I did not think Charlie was talking about the hapkido chungdokwan as his website stated taekwondo. Although I received a 4th dan in taekwondo in '91, it is an art I seldom practice, but if memory serves me it is several generations removed from the Japanese parent art, regardless of the kwan. Kongsoodo became taesoodo and that became taekwondo. With the exception of those who studied under Master Lee and are directly a part of HIS organization, all of the chungdokwan taekwondo folks I have met are affiliated with the WTF. I believe that is due to Ed Sell's but I may be wrong. It sounds like the chungdokwan dojang you are familiar with are affiliated with the late Master Lee. Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul Jere, It is good that you think you may be wrong, because you ARE. Have you been to the Sell's site? Yeah, me too. He is not doing what I or any other CDK TKD folks are doing. I understand your attitude or ideas to that 'type' of TKD, but that is not anything near what we are doing. You will never find one of the WTF forms done in our dojo as part of our lineage. If you would have looked at the 'forms' section of my website, you would have caught that. While I am sure that we are not doing EXACTLY what Lee was teaching (Is anybody REALLY doing thing 100% the way the were once done?...) we are staying TRUE to our lineage, not picking up some OTHER lineage just so we can attain higher rank, which is my only guess to w-h-a-t the Sell's are doing. I have nothing against WTF taekwondo or ITA/ITF TaeKwon-Do, but (like my instructor told me) "I just think what we do is better for my people/students, and that is the way it is going to stay." (I hope I got to you before my little piranah's did - NM,KF,AG) Yours in the Martial Arts, Charles Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 5 From: SSHapkido@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 02:13:25 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Teaching ( asking two ranks higer)- clarification. Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Perhaps I have mislead some to think that students at our school only get help from someone two ranks higher. Let me make some clarifications. On a regular class night we have one black belt teaching white belts, one teaching yellow belts, and the instructor or highest ranking black belts available teaching the remainder of the class. All white belt techniques and all yellow belt techniques are taught one way during these classes. And they are demonstrated by each student on every test regardless of rank in order to make sure that everyone is doing them /teaching them the same way. And all students are encouraged to ask their instructor questions during a regular class. In my last post, I was referring to open classes where students come in and work on whatever techniques that they feel they need help with. In general, they are asked to approach someone 2 belts higher to get assistance. However, this is not absolute and they can approach higher belts if no one else is available or if another higher belt is wandering around looking for students to help ( which is often the case). The black belts are usually keeping an eye on the colored belts when they are teaching and step in if they see a problem. And many times a black belt or red belt will actually run a white belt class for interested students. Still the general principle is to try to give the black belts some free time to assist higher colored belts and/or work on their own techniques. And this ,also, teaches the higher ranked colored belts to give back to the art by assisting the lower belts, just as they themselves were assisted. Anyway, I hope this makes my previous post a little clearer. Thanks. --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 10:45:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Best Martial Art Supply Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Here is the contact information for Sang Moo Sa (Best Martial Art Supply): Sang Moo Sa 7120 Alondra Blvd. Paramount, CA 90723 Tel. 1-800-346-3116 or (562) 251-1600 Fax: (562) 251-1611 --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs --__--__-- Message: 7 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 14:50:33 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Best/SMS phone number Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> the number i have for them is: 1-800-346-3116 :) melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2001 10th Annual US Open TKD Championships --__--__-- Message: 8 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] History of the Chung Do Kwan (Taekwondo) Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 19:05:13 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kent, have you heard of GM Park, Hae Man? The following is a short bio that I found on Google authored by Cutkick@aol.com: GM Park, Hae Man is Vice President and the International Director of the Korea Taekwondo Chung Do Kwan. He has had an illustrious martial arts career which over the last 50 years, which includes service as Taekwondo instructor at the Korean Blue House, "Soo Suk Sah Bum" (Head Instructor) at the Chung Do Kwan Main Gymnasium in Seoul, Chung Do Kwan representative for the KTA Poomse Committee which created the Palgue, Taeguek and Black Belt forms currently used by the WTF, memberships and chairmanships of the KTA, WTF and Kukkiwon Technical Committee, as well as being a Director for the KTA for many years. GM Park, Hae Man is head of World Chung Do Kwan as well. GM Park is GM Sell's instructor and GM Sell lists on his web page his own promotion to 9th Degree Black Belt as certified by the World Chung Do Kwan in 1997. Note that GM Sell is now 9th Dan WTF as of September 2001. It appears there is another Chung Do Kwan association out there as well. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kent Frazier" To: "The Dojang Digest" Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2002 4:10 PM Subject: [The_Dojang] History of the Chung Do Kwan (Taekwondo) Mr. Hilland, I am a student of Charlie Veuleman, and I just wanted to clarify a few things. I may very well be misunderstanding your last post, so this may just be repeating something you already know, but bear with me anyway. The Chung Do Kwan was founded by Lee Won Kuk, who studied directly under Funakoshi Gichin (the founder of Shotokan, though I'm sure that you are aware of this.) This is only a single degree of separation between the Chung Do Kwan and the Japanese arts. I believe the Chung Do Kwan originally operated under the name Tang Soo Do until the kwans united as T'ae Soo Do in 1955. The name was eventually changed to T'aekwondo, although it is somewhat unclear when exactly this happened. Chung Do Kwan in the modern day does not exist as a single entity. One of Lee Won Kuk's student, Son Duk Sung, took over as style head. His organization is known as the World Taekwondo Association (the WTA.) My guess would be that his is the closest to Lee Won Kuk's original Chung Do Kwan, although I really don't know. There is also the United States Chung Do Kwan Association, headed by Edward Sell. I am not exactly sure where any of his connection to teh traditional Chung Do Kwan comes in. His website (http://www.uscdka.com/) is less than helpful in getting any answers to these questions, as it is sadly lacking in content of any kind. The final child of the Chung Do Kwan that I am aware of is the group I belong to. Atlee Chittim studied under Rhee Jhoon Goo (Jhoon Rhee) while he was stationed in Korea. Rhee was another student of Lee Won Kuk. When he returned to the United States, Master Chittim sponsored Rhee and brought him to the US. Rhee later moved and left traditional Taekwondo to develop his own fighting method. Master Chittim continued teaching traditional Taekwondo. After Master Chittim's death due to cancer, Dr. David Jordan took his place as style head, a position which he still holds. While I am sure that the style of taekwondo we do is not 100% traditionally Korean, that is to be expected. It is normal for an art to transform itself and evolve when it is brought to a new place. The Okinawans modified what they got from the Chinese, the Japanese modified what they got from the Okinawans, the Koreans modified what they got from the Japanese, and we Americans are going to modify what we got from the Koreans. It is only natural for an art to change to take into account the social environment and physiological differences of its new practitioners. It may not be "traditional," but what IS "traditional?" These arts are constantly evolving, and to prevent the from growing with new practitionaers and new knowledge is to allow them to stagnate. I am not saying that tradition is unimportant, because I believe it is very important. To a certain degree though, an art is always developing its own tradition, some of which may be very different from the tradition of the previous generation. Yes, we do use Japanese terms for most of the material things in the dojo. I also thought this was a bit odd when I first began studying with Sensei Veuleman. Like most traditions, we are not completely sure why we use these specific terms instead of others. If I had to wager a guess, I would say that Lee Won Kuk probably taught using these Japanese terms as well, as they were what he used while studying under Funakoshi Gichin. I do not have any proof of this, it is pure speculation, but it seems the most likely reason. Regardless, our style owes a lot to the Japanese arts, and I consider the use of these terms an effort to pay tribute to them. I apologize if any of this post sounded preachy or high-headed, it was not meant that way. I just wanted to present my perspective on the whole thing. For what it's worth, we do know the Korean terms as well, we just generally use the Japanese ones. Thank you for patience and understanding, Kent Frazier _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 9 From: HorangiHapKiDo@aol.com Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:28:31 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Jhoon Rhee's name Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Mr. Frazier, I am friends with Grandmaster Rhee's oldest son, James Rhee, and his family and if I understand it correctly the "Jh" sound comes from the Hangul character that is more commonly pronounced '"ch" and his family name "Rhee" sound comes from the characters more commonly pronounced "ree" or "lee". The next time I talk to Mr. Rhee I will confirm that but I believe that is correct. Chuck Guthrie/ Chief Instructor Horangi Martial Arts 301 604 3946 HorangiHapKiDo@aol.com --__--__-- Message: 10 Date: Sun, 18 Aug 2002 22:14:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Kent's Post Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Dear Digest, Good Job Kent. Way to take care of me while I am away. Now, I am just anxiously waiting to see if Nathan makes a post on this one. Or maybe Amanda.... Jere, No way man, we have nothing to do with the Sell team ministry. I have sent two posts to the 'dijang dojest' on this, but they did not get posted, probably because the computer I am working from while visiting Amanda's family in OK is kinda old school, and hasn't worked well with yahoo mail. Anyway, I don't have any clue what in the world the Sells are doing in the name of Chung Do Kwan, but I am sure CDK schools everywhere feel the same way I do about them 'representing' us. Kent pretty much wrapped it up. I would like to re-enforce something kent said. He mentioned about traditon. Kent's message was right on the bat, who REALLY is 100% traditional? And how do they know? I like the way my instructor always answered my question on this subject. He said " well charlie, its like this. We practice korean karate, and about 80% of this is tradition, about 10% is new stuff, and about 10% is MY way" he also taught me that what other people do is fine, that there is nothing wrong with difference, but that he felt what he taught was good for his people, his students, and that was good enough for him. So I am not knocking the "Sell MINISTRY", but I do question some of what they do. That is just the curious nature in me. Seeing is beleiving, right Ray? Yours In The Martial Arts Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest