Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2002 00:20:04 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #400 - 10 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Jhoon Rhee's name (Burdick, Dakin Robert) 2. no blackbelt mags (Chris Hamilton EZ Lock) 3. Re: Kent's Post (Tom Kennelly) 4. several items (Hapkido Self Defense Center) 5. Re: Whoa, Not Quite... (Tom Kennelly) 6. Re: Whoa, Not Quite... - web site address request (Tom Kennelly) 7. Duck! (Charles Veuleman) 8. Chung Do Kwan (Ray Terry) 9. back from Jackson (Ray Terry) 10. Taekwondo Today magazine (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 09:50:54 -0500 From: "Burdick, Dakin Robert" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] Jhoon Rhee's name Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net While I am not a student of GM Rhee, and haven't seen the hangul for his name, I would imagine that McCune-Reischauer would romanize it something like this: Yi, Chun-Ku "Rhee" is the same as Lee, Li, Yi, I, etc. The "k" is pronounced as a "g" when it is between two vowels. The "J" (or Jh as he writes it) becomes a "Ch" at the start of a word. It could also be: Yi, Ch'un-K'u Yi, Ch'un-Ku Yi, Chun-K'u But I bet it is one of those. Why don't you write him and ask him? And, of course, let us know afterwards what you found out! :) Yours in the arts, Dakin Burdick burdickd@indiana.edu --__--__-- Message: 2 From: "Chris Hamilton EZ Lock" To: Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 10:28:40 -0500 Organization: EZ Lock Incorporated Subject: [The_Dojang] no blackbelt mags Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hello Everyone, I've done a bit of traveling this month, and have noticed you can no longer find Blackbelt or other martial arts magazines in our nations airports. I must have checked twenty or more of the news stands and there were no martial arts magazines to be found. I'm not a gun person, but all of those types of magazines were noticeablly missing too. I assume this is result 911. Also for the poster with reservations about going to Long Island, don't worry. It was not what I expected, in fact it was kinda like going to the country, and the people seemed friendly enough. Of course it was a relatively short drive into Manhattan (except during rush hour) and that was a plus. Thanks to Melinda for guiding me to Master John Browns dojang in Kansas. We had a great time, and I was impressed with Master Brown's skill and knowledge. He was a tough guy, as well as an excellant instructor. I also visited a TKD school in New York where I was not as impressed. I should have known when I saw the sign on the counter advertising the "ultimate blackbelt program" for only $5999.00, to each his own. Chris H. Han Mu Do --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Kent's Post Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 13:44:23 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles, I think you should know that GM Sell actually has two entities, US Chung Do Kwan and the Sell Team. I believe he operates them somewhat independently therefore for purposes of this discussion we should focus of how US Chung Do Kwan relates to the discussion and not necessarily the Sell Team. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Veuleman" To: Sent: Monday, August 19, 2002 1:14 AM Subject: [The_Dojang] Kent's Post Dear Digest, Good Job Kent. Way to take care of me while I am away. Now, I am just anxiously waiting to see if Nathan makes a post on this one. Or maybe Amanda.... Jere, No way man, we have nothing to do with the Sell team ministry. I have sent two posts to the 'dijang dojest' on this, but they did not get posted, probably because the computer I am working from while visiting Amanda's family in OK is kinda old school, and hasn't worked well with yahoo mail. Anyway, I don't have any clue what in the world the Sells are doing in the name of Chung Do Kwan, but I am sure CDK schools everywhere feel the same way I do about them 'representing' us. Kent pretty much wrapped it up. I would like to re-enforce something kent said. He mentioned about traditon. Kent's message was right on the bat, who REALLY is 100% traditional? And how do they know? I like the way my instructor always answered my question on this subject. He said " well charlie, its like this. We practice korean karate, and about 80% of this is tradition, about 10% is new stuff, and about 10% is MY way" he also taught me that what other people do is fine, that there is nothing wrong with difference, but that he felt what he taught was good for his people, his students, and that was good enough for him. So I am not knocking the "Sell MINISTRY", but I do question some of what they do. That is just the curious nature in me. Seeing is beleiving, right Ray? Yours In The Martial Arts Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang --__--__-- Message: 4 From: "Hapkido Self Defense Center" To: Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 14:38:23 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] several items Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Kent, if you are interested email me privately as I have a detailed history (a translation into English from Hangul) somewhere around here at the dojang on disk of the original kwans (or see Tom's post). <<<...Yes, we do use Japanese terms for most of the material things in the dojo. I also thought this was a bit odd when I first began studying with Sensei Veuleman. Like most traditions, we are not completely sure why we use these specific terms instead of others...>>> Why do you use the term taekwondo? Why not use taesoodo, kongsoodo or even shotokan karate? What other traditions are you not sure about? If you are interested in taekwondo history, I would recommend that you talk with two of my friends who have been in taekwondo for a long time and are on this group, Master Rich Hodder, tkd 7th dan and Master Dennis McHenry, mdk tsd 6th dan. You can also talk with Glenn over at the 'other' group as he knew Master Lee before he died. His email address is in Tom's post (also copied below). Charles, I have never visited Ed Sell's website as I really do not care, but the only tkd cdk that appears to be in this area is Ed Sell's and like many organizations in taekwondo he has some good and bad players. <<>> Tom, you found the kwan history book translated on line from our old friend in Hawaii! Jere R. Hilland www.geocities.com/hapkiyukwonsul --__--__-- Message: 5 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Whoa, Not Quite... Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:44:20 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles V said: we are staying TRUE to our (CDK) lineage, not picking up some OTHER lineage just so we can attain higher rank, which is my only guess to w-h-a-t the Sell's are doing. That was quite a swipe you took there? Do you know anything more about GM Sell then what is on his website? Do you question the integrity of GM Sell who has been in the martial arts for over 35 years. In the school I attend, which is affiliated with USCDKA, we believe we follow a traditional approach to TKD and are not just a sports school. To become a Black Belt in USCDKA one must pass a 4 - 6 hour review board staffed by high ranking USCDKA BB's and demonstrate a vast array of capabilities. The following is just a short list of requirements so that you can differentiate a USCDKA Black Belt from someone who attends a sport school: 1. Poomse - TaeGuek 1-8, Koyro, and a poomse developed by GM Sell himself. 2. Self defense techniques. 3. Sparring and sparring against multiple opponents. 4. Some number of instruction hours GM Sell was trained in CDK, has rank in World Chung Do Kwan and has the savvy to obtain a rank that marks him as the highest ranking non-oriental KKW certified 9 th Dan. In other words, he has dedicated his life to TKD and it shows in his rank and more importantly in the Black Belts he has graduated. Lastly, do NOT confuse his dedication to his faith and the Sell team with his USCDKA organization. --__--__-- Message: 6 From: "Tom Kennelly" To: Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Whoa, Not Quite... - web site address request Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 17:51:31 -0400 Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Charles V says: You will never find one of the WTF forms done in our dojo as part of our lineage. If you would have looked at the 'forms' section of my website, you would have caught that. Can you post the url for your web site? Thanks. --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Mon, 19 Aug 2002 23:27:31 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Veuleman To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Duck! Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere, Hey man, my first post finally went through, as well as my third, so don't think I was bombarding you with crap, I just didn't think they went through to you! Sorry for all the confusion. The messages were basically the same though, hopefully no harm done. If so, my apologies. Also, I read someone post that there is another chung do kwan TKD, I am sure there is another one, or fifty, but for the most part, they should be the same, and generally practice the same forms and principals, at least somewhat right? Who knows guys! I do know that it is common for two large groups to part, one going (for instance) more WTF sport oriented, and one just doing what they have been, that happens all the time. There are two USTF's probably from the same thing (I speculate only). The two are VERY similar at least from the outside looking in, but I am sure they have their differences greatly internally, but same forms, same belts, same franchise structure/fees, similar tenets, but two different heads of the organization. I guess it happens. One must quote the famous line "So will the real Shady please stand up, please stand up..." Just kidding. :D Yours in the martial arts Charlie Veuleman ===== ------------------------------------- L. Charles Veuleman Natchitoches Karate Institute 204 Rapides Drive Natchitoches, LA 71457 318-356-7727 http://www.bluewavekarate.com ------------------------------------- --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 07:55:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Chung Do Kwan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Info on the Chung Do Kwan, from http://martialartsresource.com/anonftp/pub/the_dojang/digests/history.html Chapter 1: Development of the Korean Kwans Section 1: Chung Do Kwan Right after the independence of Korea the Chung Do Kwan, one of the five key dojangs, was founded first. It symbolized the Chung Do Kwan's name, Blue Waves, meaning a youngster's spirit and vitality. Chung Do Kwan's founder, Lee Won Kuk, moved to Japan when he was 19 years old, in 1926. While in Japan he first attended high school and then entered the law school of Chuo University. Then he joined Japan's Karate-do headquarters, the Song Do Kwan (Shotokan). He received Karate instruction from Karate's father, Funakoshi Sensei. There he learned Karate with the Song Moo Kwan's founder, Ro Byung Jick. He moved back to Japan and taught Tang Soo Do in the Yong Shin school hall in Suh Dae Moon Gu's Ochun Dong, Seoul because he had a good relationship with Japan's Chosun Governor General Abe in 1944. This led to the rumor that he was pro-Japanese. Later, Oh Do Kwan's founder, Choi Hong Hi said "After independence Lee Kwan Jang was charged with acts of pro-Japanese and stood in a special civil trial." Lee Won Kuk was a precise person. He had a strong body of a martial artist and glaringly sharp eyes. His expression was very strict. Right after the independence day he seemed to offset his pro-Japanese deeds by developing a good relationship with people of the National Police Headquarters. He led the efforts to get rid of Seoul gangsters. The Chung Do Kwan was once called the National Police Headquarters dojang. After the Korean War the Chung Do Kwan members were less than 200. GM Lee Won Kuk visited the school twice and watched the lessons. The primary instructors were Yoo Ung Jun and Son Duk Sung with promotion tests given every six months. Graduates of the Chung Do Kwan were: (1) Yoo Ung Jun, (2) Son Duk Sung, (3) Uhm Woon Kyu, (4) Hyun Jong Myun, (5) Min Woon Sik, (6) Han In Sook, (7) Jung Young Taek, (8) Kang Suh Chong, (9) Baek Joon Ki, (10) Nam Tae Hi, (11) Ko Jae Chun, (12) Kwak Kuen Sik, (13) Kim Suk Kyu, (14) Han Cha Kyo, (15) Jo Sung Il, (16) Lee Sa Man, (17) Rhee Jhoon Goo (Jhoon Rhee), and (18) Kim Bong Sik. >From Inchon, which became the center of the Chung Do Kwan's annex Kwans, more schools were opened. They were: (1) Kang Suh Chong's Kuk Mu Kwan, (2) Lee Yong Woo's Jung Do Kwan in Suh Dae Moon Ku, (3) Ko Jae Chun's Chung Ryong Kwan in Kwang Ju and (4) Choi Hong Hi's Oh Do Kwan. The Oh Do Kwan especially had active Chung Do Kwan members who were in the military after the Korean War. The Chung Do Kwan's first Kwan Jang was Lee Won Kuk, the second was Son Duk Sung, and the third was Uhm Woon Kyu. When Son Duk Sung because the Kwan Jang of the Chung Do Kwan, Uhm Woon Kyu, Hyun Jong Myun, and Nam Tae Hi had conflicts with regard to the issue of who should receive the nomination from Lee Won Kuk and become the next Kwan Jang. --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 08:03:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] back from Jackson Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Returned home safely from Master West's 17th Intl HKD and KMA seminar. Great to see everyone there and especially to see perhaps the only 7 foot Hapkido player in the world (Don Holcomb) receive his 4th Dan from Master West. Everyone had a great time. Can't wait for #18 in March... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 09:20:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Taekwondo Today magazine Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Had a chance to read the most recent edition of the USTU's Taekwondo Today magazine on the flight down to Jackson, MS. This was perhaps the best issue yet. I really enjoyed it. Great job! Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest