Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 03:02:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #408 - 9 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Patches, new friends & cross-training (Denise Lee) 2. Hapkido website (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 3. Ummmmm.... Hapkido Home Study Course (Ray Terry) 4. Bagels in Tulsa (BK4Leg@aol.com) 5. Re: Hapkido website (Ray Terry) 6. Re: 20 questions (ChunjiDo@aol.com) 7. RE: Jose & Aikido (FirstPe315@aol.com) 8. Chong Min Lee (FirstPe315@aol.com) 9. Camo doboks (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 From: "Denise Lee" To: Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:14:21 -0400 Subject: [The_Dojang] Patches, new friends & cross-training Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Master Terry - you are most welcome for our school patch. Thanks very much for adding it to your collection! It was really great to get to meet you, although briefly, at Master J. R. West's most recent seminar in Jackson, MS. I'm sorry, indeed, to have missed your knife defense clinic - but there were so many clinics to attend & so little time!! Next time for sure!! And, I'd like to thank Master West (ESPECIALLY!!) & all those associated with his school & the USKMAF for their incredible hospitality & instruction at the 17th International HapKiDo Seminar. As a Tang Soo Do practitioner, I'm also especially grateful to Master Mac (& his students!!) for all his instruction, help, friendship - & especially for so quickly making Dylan & me feel part of the TSD "contingent." What a wonderful learning experience this was and the camaraderie among the participants was extraordinary. I'm told there were a wholelotta people among the missing this time . . . wow! Also, in my first posting to this list I asked for help finding a school for a student in the southern GA, northern FL vicinity. Probably not a very well-worded request, as my language is far too often out of sync with my intent. I'd like to explain my reasoning in terms of the recent discussions of cross-training. Our past TSD training has included s-o-o-o-o many components that it's most difficult to become proficient in much more than perhaps 1 or maybe 2 elements of the curriculum by the time one advances to Cho Dan (although all students must be able to demonstrate that they "know" every required technique, each person becomes proficient with the various components eventually). In addition to all the "usual" hand & foot techniques (all but perhaps a couple of which are learned in the Gup curriculum), by the time a person tests for Cho Dan, they must know at the minimum: 13 Hyungs, 18 one-steps & 19 ho sin sul techniques. By the numbers, with & without a partner, & with some ability to perform the hyungs with the correct characteristics. Not to mention culture, terminology, history, etc., etc., etc. "Memory-heavy." Sooooooo, since the element that's the least integrated into the entire curriculum anyway is the ho sin sul - it's especially difficult for those students who start training as youngsters to understand this component. They learn & memorize the techniques, but don't really understand how they work. I always equate it for their parents as trying to teach long division to first graders. In my (albeit limited) experience, it's some time in the later teen years that the nuances of this component of the curriculum begin to make sense. Again, in my experience, the kids training in TSD are far better at "kicking & punching," free-sparring & whatever forms they can remember that day. (Explanation: the minimum time to Cho Dan for our adults is about 4 - 5 years; for the kids, it's 6 - 8 years, depending on many variables.) So, in helping this particular student continue his martial training, at this point in his development I think he needs to cross-train. In fact, it would be to his benefit if he were to train in a completely different art. He's ridiculously proficient at the "kick-punch" element - he has hang time & spinning ability that we [older] adults all pine after. (Whine, whine.) But, when he left for the Air Force last year, he was just beginning to have a clue as to how it was that the ho sin sul techniques worked. And although he loved doing the Chil Sung hyungs (long-fist), we, his instructors, were actually just beginning to have a clue about their purpose. Thus, he would benefit greatly from training in either a HapKiDo, Ju-jitsu or Aiki-jitsu school to enhance his ho sin sul abilities. Or, in a Northern Kung Fu school, to enhance his understanding of the long-fist elements of Tang Soo Do. It would not be so beneficial for him, at this point, to train in any other kick-punch art - even Tang Soo Do. Now, all this is IMHO. Your mileage may vary (stealing someone else's line here). But I elaborate on my reasoning as I feared that I may have offended some members of this community with my previous comment that training in Taekwondo would not be the most beneficial for him right now. Yet I'm recommending to him that he not train in Tang Soo Do, either. As his instructor, I'm responsible for fostering his development as a martial artist. This path, I think, is in his best interest right now. OK, so, am I crazy, or what? Thanks to all- justdenise intentlee@snet.net "You will be what you practice." --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 16:03:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net This afternoon I was surfing the web as I always seem to do at this time of the day and came across this website: www.hapkiyoosool.com and I found a lot of interesting material that I thought you all might enjoy reading. Please feel free to comment or forward your thoughts. Here is just a small portion of what's listed. <> Sun Mu Kwan-USA www.ushankido.org --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs, a Yahoo! service - Search Thousands of New Jobs --__--__-- Message: 3 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 17:09:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Ummmmm.... Hapkido Home Study Course Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Noticed in the recent issue of Black Belt magazine. And I quote: Hapkido Home-Study Course The United States Hapkido Association -- Mu Gong Kwan offers a home-study course in the Korean art that takes you from white belt to black belt. Marshall P. Gagne becomes your personal instructor and consultant for the nine videos and five books that make up his Distant Learning Program. Also available are several on-line trainers, a hot line and live class viewings. Each video in the course sells for $39.95, and the manuals cost $39.95 to $69.95 each. For more information call ..... or visit ..... :( Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 4 From: BK4Leg@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:14:26 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net CC: Ken Mcdonough Subject: [The_Dojang] Bagels in Tulsa Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Ken's comments about Tulsa lacking bagels stimulated my curiousity. I went to the online phone directory at 411.com, and in the Yellow pages, I searched for bagels in Tulsa, OK, and found Market Deli 712 S. Boston Ave Tulsa OK (918) 582-5711 I'd wager one could find bagels at other places there as well. An egg cream, may not, but bagels ? sure. Bernie Noo Yawk Siddy --__--__-- Message: 5 From: Ray Terry Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Hapkido website To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 18:34:48 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > <> > IMHO, sounds like a poor (and unnecessary) attempt to take a slap at GM Bong Soo Han's IHF. Yes? One also wonders why the IHF or KHF or Daehan Kidohae or KHA or ... would "NEVER" promote an American to 9th Dan. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 6 From: ChunjiDo@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:08:44 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: 20 questions Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net people using the terms "pil sung" and "taekwon" at the end of their posts are just being spirited about their practise of taekwondo. as you may know, "tae kwon" means "hand & foot" and pil sung means "certain victory". melinda Chajonshim Martial Arts Academy http://www.cjmaa.com Chajonshim Martial Arts Supply http://www.cjmas.com Toll Free: 1-877-847-4072 Proud Sponsor of the 2001 10th Annual US Open TKD Championships --__--__-- Message: 7 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:26:48 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Jose & Aikido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jose- Very interesting questions. Have been ranked in Aikido for some time. The movement part of their training certainly helped my Hapkido but training with them as much as I did (many seminars) certainly showed some glaring differences. The individual who answered you before was quite right. There are not many major styles of Aikido. Tomiki and Yoshinkan may be the most obvious ones. Yoshinkan was developed by Gozo Shioda (recently deceased) and it is a very hard-style form of Aikido. Similar to what Steven Seagal practices (in fact he might practice that one, I forgot). However, the idea of unbalancing and kuzushi (to put a Judo word to it) is of universal importance to arts like Aikido, Judo and Hapkido. It's really irrelevant in what manner you do it. You may know or find (if you don't t know) that how much of your body you use depends on the attacker, the attack, their physical abilities, your environment etc. Many of the hoshinsool practiced at my school will be done in a static stance and manner up to almost Brown-Belt. It is not until then does Hoshinsool take on a dynamic approach. But you have to learn to walk before you run. However, as in Aikido, ultimately the trick is to NOT let the opponent grab you, tackle you etc. If they do, you should consider it a failure. The static techniques are simply modified when performed from a "free-practice" sort of way. However, unless you unbalance your opponent, their is no success. Aikido is great and fun and use the same principles, unfortunately there becomes a slight "break-off" in many (not all) of the Aikido schools when it comes to practicality. I'll tell you what I learned from my many trainings with Aikido people (some of the best). Aikido works GREAT on laymen and other Aikido people. But when I worked with them, I simply had BAD KI.....(some of you will get that joke) My 2 cents. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 8 From: FirstPe315@aol.com Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 23:28:24 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Chong Min Lee Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To All Subscribers- Any information or comments on a gentlemen from New Jersey called Chong Min Lee. Talked to him a few times. I like him and his materials are interesting. Used to be (I think) the American Rep. for the Korea Hapkido Federation. Since I believe he has started his own organization. I am curious if anybody has had any dealings with him. Thanks. Jeff --__--__-- Message: 9 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 20:31:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Camo doboks Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net A story that I've told before, will tell now, and no doubt will tell again in the future. The mention of camo doboks made me think of it... Back when I was a young buck (last year) and craving more and more info about HKD, TSD and TKD, when traveling on business I would make a visit to any nearby dojang just to watch a class and meet the instructor. About 22 years ago, while down in the San Diego area, I stopped by an Oh Do Kwan dojang. At the time all I knew was that it was a TKD school. I arrived just before class began and chatted up the instructor a bit, a young lady. Time came to begin class... A few basic warmup exercises, stretches and then the requisite front-stance low-block march across the dojang floor. I was at the back of the studio, so they were initially moving away from me. On the command 'Dora!' they all turned and kihaped. Only their kihap was "Kill!". !?! So here I am, at a new dojang and all the students are now looking at me, screaming "Kill!". Given there were 30 of them and only one of me, I quickly determined that I was outnumbered (mama didn't raise no stupid children). I looked for the door, but thought I'd wait a bit longer to see what I would happen (hummm, maybe I was wrong about mama). They again marched across the floor, "Dora!", turned their backs to me and, yep, kihaped "Kill!" once more. After class, while chatting up the instructor once again, I had to ask. The story went that since they were Oh Do Kwan, i.e. a military kwan, "Kill" was their kihap. True story. Really... Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest