Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:03:07 -0700 From: the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net Subject: The_Dojang digest, Vol 9 #409 - 14 msgs X-Mailer: Mailman v2.0.13.cisto1 MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Errors-To: the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net X-BeenThere: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.13.cisto1 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net X-Subscribed-Address: kma@martialartsresource.com List-Id: The Internet's premier discussion forum on Korean Martial Arts. List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , List-Help: Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: Send The_Dojang mailing list submissions to the_dojang@martialartsresource.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net You can reach the person managing the list at the_dojang-admin@martialartsresource.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of The_Dojang digest..." <<------------------ The_Dojang mailing list ------------------>> Serving the Internet since June 1994. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The Internet's premier discussion forum devoted to Korean Martial Arts. See the Korean Martial Arts (KMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of The_Dojang at http://MartialArtsResource.com Pil Seung! Today's Topics: 1. Korean Karate, etc... (Nathan Miller) 2. Re: Home study and 9th dan (Klaas Barends) 3. Hapkido website (Randall Sexton) 4. RE: Ummmmm.... Hapkido Home Study Course (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 5. RE: Hapkido website (Sun Mu Kwan-USA) 6. RE>seabrook/master west (MW) 7. what it can look like after 41. :)>>> (Wayne Watkins) 8. Re: The_Distance learning Hapkido (Beungood@aol.com) 9. Re: Korean Karate, etc... (Daniel Paik) 10. patchsets added (Ray Terry) 11. Re: Bagels in Tulsa; Hapkido here ? (Ken McDonough) 12. GM West's (Charles Richards) 13. Re: Hapkido Home Study Course (DrgnSlyr5@aol.com) 14. Talks with Pyongyang on taekwondo (Ray Terry) --__--__-- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Aug 2002 22:53:14 -0700 (PDT) From: Nathan Miller To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate, etc... Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Hey again all... Just back from class, so I'm a little tired, but hopefully this will all make sense. Bear with me. :) > To refer to TaeKwon-Do as "Korean Karate" is not > only ridiculous and misleading > but also insults the integrity of all the existant > independents arts of both > Japan and Korea (albeit historically sharing > brotherly roots). The term "Korean > Karate" has no currency outside of the United States > and frankly is as > meaningful a description for TaeKwon-Do as would be > to refer to Kung Fu as > "Chinese > Karate" Except that originally, that's all Tae Kwon Do WAS. Or some styles, at least. Chung Do Kwan and others taught essentially Shotokan karate, which it billed as Tang Soo Do. Other kwans taught Kwon Bup, which, if my memory recalls correctly, is the Korean translation of Chuan Fa, or Kung Fu. Moo Duk Kwan taught, from what I can tell, a Chinese martial art using Shotokan forms, that they also called Tang Soo Do - though very different from the Chung Do Kwan version. When Jhoon Rhee came to America, he called his art Korean Karate. S. Henry Cho's book "Taekwondo: The Secrets of Korean Karate" (it's even in the title, and used profusely throughout) says that for years, Koreans just called it Karate, even using that pronunciation in public - in Korea. Son, Duk Song, the second head of the Chung Do Kwan, titled his definitive books on his style - printed here in America - "Korean Karate" and "Black Belt Korean Karate." Chung Do Kwan was one of the first kwans, if not the first, to publically change the name of their art to Tae Kwon Do. Now I might rant a little... So why not call ourselves Tang Soo Do, the name the art originally went by? I feel that, in changing from Tang Soo Do to Tae Kwon Do, and for so long now, that we have given our claim to that name. Tang Soo Do is now the name for a heavily Chinese influenced art, not a Japanese influenced one - although the Moo Duk Kwan now calls its art Soo Bahk Do, I would not ever call what we do Tang Soo Do; not out of disrespect for Tang Soo Do practitioners, but out of respect for them, as its very obvious what we do is not what they do. Tae Kwon Do was chosen as the name to represent several different arts all practiced in Korea - whether they were Japanese-based, Chinese-based, or native Korean-based. When the time came to solidify into one, solid, wholly Korean art/sport, some here in America, specifically Rhee's first few American black belts, decided not to change. We kept the name, though. It was still the name of what we did. It just wasn't the way the Korean government wanted us to do it. :) > > In KSW: > -Soo Ki: any hand strike > -Jah Se : stance/posture -sudo : knifehand strike > (yuk sudo- reverse / yup > sudo-side / ssang sudo-double hwejun- circling > etc....) > > michael whalen Thanks Michael, and Mac. Although, I took Soki as Sogi, which also means stance, correct? > Comment about the short gi: If Nachitoches is as > hot as New Orleans, I would > think short sleeves make perfectly good sense. This > is an example of not > following tradition blindly, but adapting sensibly > to the time and place. It's a tad bit cooler, not much, but it smells a WHOLE lot better. :) Thanks for bearing with me, Nathan LA Bluewave boyz --__--__-- Message: 2 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 12:13:54 +0200 From: Klaas Barends Organization: gbu~internet services To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Home study and 9th dan Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net > The United States Hapkido Association -- Mu Gong Kwan offers a home-study > course in the Korean art that takes you from white belt to black belt. > Marshall P. Gagne becomes your personal instructor and consultant for the > nine videos and five books that make up his Distant Learning Program. > Also available are several on-line trainers, a hot line and live class > viewings. Each video in the course sells for $39.95, and the manuals cost > $39.95 to $69.95 each. For more information call ..... or visit ..... This is truly very sad. On the other hand: "It's immoral to let a fool keep his money." > One also wonders why the IHF or KHF or Daehan Kidohae or KHA or ... would > "NEVER" promote an American to 9th Dan. Maybe Koreans don't like Americans :) -- kind regards Klaas Barends http://www.hapkido.nl/ --__--__-- Message: 3 From: "Randall Sexton" To: Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 07:35:35 -0500 Subject: [The_Dojang] Hapkido website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I visited the Hapkido website and while they may be the only ones who can do Hapkido correctly, they have not yet learned how to spell "martial arts!" See the sentence below. www.hapkiyoosool.com "Please understand our frankness but, we all frown strongly on fraud in the matial arts. Please help us keep Hapkido pure and from becoming diluted." Randall Sexton www.laughinghara.com --__--__-- Message: 4 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 05:36:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Ummmmm.... Hapkido Home Study Course Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well he's another one of those "stay away from" people that seem to hurt more than help the IHF. <> Not awarded by the IHF though. <> Really. The IHF does not give seperate DAN certificates for Hankdo or Hankumdo as far as I know. <> This seems to get better and better as I read more into his website. Sun Mu Kwan-USA www.ushankido.org --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes --__--__-- Message: 5 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 05:46:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Sun Mu Kwan-USA To: Dojang digest Subject: [The_Dojang] RE: Hapkido website Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Well it also says this: <> That must of been one BIG demonstration....Did they have enough room for everyone??? <> Sun Mu Kwan-USA www.ushankido.org --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes --__--__-- Message: 6 Date: 23 Aug 02 08:37:07 -0500 From: MW To: the_dojang Subject: [The_Dojang] RE>seabrook/master west Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Am looking for any info on this seminar. Dates/cost/contact thanks michael whalen KSW --__--__-- Message: 7 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:42:48 -0500 From: "Wayne Watkins" To: Subject: [The_Dojang] what it can look like after 41. :)>>> Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Jere I am highly insulted and hurt by you inference that those of us over 41 might not be in shape!! I am over 51 and I am in great shape!! Round is a great shape! Wayne Watkins wwatkins@holmescc.edu --__--__-- Message: 8 From: Beungood@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:57:38 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: The_Distance learning Hapkido Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net In a message dated 8/23/02 6:04:31 AM Eastern Daylight Time, the_dojang-request@martialartsresource.net writes: > The United States Hapkido Association -- Mu Gong Kwan offers a home-study > course in the Korean art that takes you from white belt to black belt. > Marshall P. Gagne becomes your personal instructor and consultant for the > nine videos and five books that make up his Distant Learning Program. > Also available are several on-line trainers, a hot line and live class > viewings. Each video in the course sells for $39.95, and the manuals cost > $39.95 to $69.95 each. For more information call ..... or visit ..... > > Do they have a follow on course to become a grandmaster?......... --__--__-- Message: 9 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 09:23:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Paik Subject: Re: [The_Dojang] Korean Karate, etc... To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net actually, the school that i go to is called "Master Kwon's Korean Karate Hapkido" but when you walk in, it's all Hapkido. The sign on the street says "Korean Karate". I talked to our grand master Kwon about this before and he said that he's been doing that since he started his school about 25 years ago because at that time, Americans were not familiar with hapkido, tae kwon do, or even martial arts. They simply knew "Karate" so even though the phrase is not accurate, he still thinks that the average lay person thinks of karate == martial arts. Personally, I think he can change the wording so it's "Korean Martial Arts" but that's just me. Dan. --- Nathan Miller wrote: > Hey again all... > > Just back from class, so I'm a little tired, but > hopefully this will all make sense. Bear with me. :) > > > > To refer to TaeKwon-Do as "Korean Karate" is not > > only ridiculous and misleading > > but also insults the integrity of all the existant > > independents arts of both > > Japan and Korea (albeit historically sharing > > brotherly roots). The term "Korean > > Karate" has no currency outside of the United States > > and frankly is as > > meaningful a description for TaeKwon-Do as would be > > to refer to Kung Fu as > > "Chinese > > Karate" > > Except that originally, that's all Tae Kwon Do WAS. > Or some styles, at least. Chung Do Kwan and others > taught essentially Shotokan karate, which it billed as > Tang Soo Do. Other kwans taught Kwon Bup, which, if > my memory recalls correctly, is the Korean translation > of Chuan Fa, or Kung Fu. Moo Duk Kwan taught, from > what I can tell, a Chinese martial art using Shotokan > forms, that they also called Tang Soo Do - though very > different from the Chung Do Kwan version. > > When Jhoon Rhee came to America, he called his art > Korean Karate. S. Henry Cho's book "Taekwondo: The > Secrets of Korean Karate" (it's even in the title, and > used profusely throughout) says that for years, > Koreans just called it Karate, even using that > pronunciation in public - in Korea. Son, Duk Song, > the second head of the Chung Do Kwan, titled his > definitive books on his style - printed here in > America - "Korean Karate" and "Black Belt Korean > Karate." Chung Do Kwan was one of the first kwans, if > not the first, to publically change the name of their > art to Tae Kwon Do. > > Now I might rant a little... > > So why not call ourselves Tang Soo Do, the name the > art originally went by? I feel that, in changing from > Tang Soo Do to Tae Kwon Do, and for so long now, that > we have given our claim to that name. Tang Soo Do is > now the name for a heavily Chinese influenced art, not > a Japanese influenced one - although the Moo Duk Kwan > now calls its art Soo Bahk Do, I would not ever call > what we do Tang Soo Do; not out of disrespect for Tang > Soo Do practitioners, but out of respect for them, as > its very obvious what we do is not what they do. > > Tae Kwon Do was chosen as the name to represent > several different arts all practiced in Korea - > whether they were Japanese-based, Chinese-based, or > native Korean-based. When the time came to solidify > into one, solid, wholly Korean art/sport, some here in > America, specifically Rhee's first few American black > belts, decided not to change. We kept the name, > though. It was still the name of what we did. It > just wasn't the way the Korean government wanted us to > do it. :) > > > > > In KSW: > > -Soo Ki: any hand strike > > -Jah Se : stance/posture -sudo : knifehand strike > > (yuk sudo- reverse / yup > > sudo-side / ssang sudo-double hwejun- circling > > etc....) > > > > michael whalen > > Thanks Michael, and Mac. Although, I took Soki as > Sogi, which also means stance, correct? > > > Comment about the short gi: If Nachitoches is as > > hot as New Orleans, I would > > think short sleeves make perfectly good sense. This > > is an example of not > > following tradition blindly, but adapting sensibly > > to the time and place. > > It's a tad bit cooler, not much, but it smells a WHOLE > lot better. :) > > Thanks for bearing with me, > Nathan > LA Bluewave boyz > _______________________________________________ > The_Dojang mailing list > The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net > http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 10 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 10:39:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] patchsets added Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Just added eight new sets of patches (jpegs) to the_dojang's collection of patches at: http://martialartsresource.com/korean/patch/patches.html Patchsets #17 thru #24 are new. Masters Cushing and Lee... Yours are not there yet, but will be in included in Patchset #25, which should be added in just a few more days. Thanks to all! Have a cloth patch you don't need (and don't see in the collection)? Please snailmail it to: Ray Terry PO Box 110841 Campbell, CA 95011-0841 A first class postage stamp on a regular envelope is all that is required. Much appreciated. Ray Terry rterry@idiom.com --__--__-- Message: 11 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:03:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Ken McDonough To: BK4Leg@aol.com, the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Cc: Ken Mcdonough Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Bagels in Tulsa; Hapkido here ? Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net I just tried to send an email and hit the wrong button. Don't know if I sent it so if this is a repeat, kick me in the pants. Regarding Bernie's comments below, I noticed a few New York style deli's around Tulsa. My main man, Tulsa Jerry, showed me around Tulsa. This is a nice town. Nice downtown, good clubs, great parks, easy to get around, and friendly people. Better than Minot, North Dakota in the middle of January. Bernie, do me a favor and run a search on the subway Kanish's (sic) I used to eat in New York City. Also, I do not see any guys with towels on their heads selling Coney Island hot dogs on the streets. Run a seach with these subject titles: guys from middle east and Coney Island Hot Dogs. See what you get and let me know. Lots of pick up trucks though. Anyone know of Mr. Rada who teaches Hapkido in Tulsa. Hit me privately. A few Silat and Eskrima/Jeet Kun Do schools. Two Harley Dealers. A great old 50 styles drive in burger place to bring a 57 Chevy. Lots of live music. Peace, Big Ken --- BK4Leg@aol.com wrote: > Ken's comments about Tulsa lacking bagels stimulated my curiousity. I > went > to the online phone directory at 411.com, and in the Yellow pages, I > searched > for bagels in Tulsa, OK, and found > > Market Deli > 712 S. Boston Ave > Tulsa OK > (918) 582-5711 > > I'd wager one could find bagels at other places there as well. An egg > cream, > may not, but bagels ? sure. > > Bernie > Noo Yawk Siddy __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 12 Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 11:12:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Charles Richards To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] GM West's Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net <> Hi Folks, Sorry I missed the get-together at GM West's! My daughter came down with stomach flu on Wednesday and by Friday my wife had it. Now everyone is back to just the sniffles. It sounds like everyone had a blast, so I hope I can make it next time. When is the seminar in Ft. Wayne? <> Exit extreme deep stealth mode :-) Dear list and USKMAF brethren, Hearing Master Hodder's comments and others, my sadness about missing GM West's house party has increased exponentially. I started out with big plans to come to the seminar and steal all of Master Terry's knife techniques to teach at my Moo Do Camp (shameless plug). Much has been going on since I had a chance to post last. Just before AAU Nationals I signed a lease on "the world's smallest Tang Soo Do school." Got back from Nationals and spent every night after class sanding glue off of what is now a beautifull red-oak hardwood dojang floor. We are now teaching classes 4 days a week in our new location and still painting, and doing misc. odds and ends :-) The week before the seminar my day job sent me to Florida for training so I took the wife and two kids (toddler and infant). As it worked out I was still driving back from Florida when the seminar was going on. I can relate to Master Hilland's comment so maybe Grandmaster Richards (you know my wife) will let me come to Jackson in March as my one trip alone :-) Also I would like to extend special apologies to Master Mac and the Tang Soo Do folks as I understand this years TSD pre-seminar subset was even bigger and better. And yes with all that going on, I'm still getting ready for the Moja Kwan 2nd Annual Moo Do Camp September 28th (oops that's two plugs). Yours in Jung Do, Charles Richards www.geocities.com/mojakwan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance - Get real-time stock quotes http://finance.yahoo.com --__--__-- Message: 13 From: DrgnSlyr5@aol.com Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 14:46:19 EDT To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Subject: [The_Dojang] Re: Hapkido Home Study Course Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net << Hapkido Home-Study Course ...Also available are several on-line trainers, a hot line and live class viewings. >> For a reasonable fee, I am available as a distance-partner for training and for your black belt test. Call the number I will provide when your payment has cleared, and I will tap out over the phone, in coordination with your kihap. Learning timing is crucial to developing your self-defense ability, so don't miss this opportunity to train with a live partner rather than a video one. Sharon T. Partners Hotline --__--__-- Message: 14 From: Ray Terry To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net (The_Dojang) Date: Fri, 23 Aug 2002 15:02:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [The_Dojang] Talks with Pyongyang on taekwondo Reply-To: the_dojang@martialartsresource.net Seoul hopes to hold working-level talks with Pyongyang on Taekwondo 2002.08.19 South Korea hopes to hold a working-level meeting with North Korea in Pyongyang this month to discuss exchanges of proposed inter-Korean taekwondo demonstration teams, taekwondo officials said yesterday. "We have decided to ask the North to hold working-level talks in Pyongyang no later than Aug. 30, as our taekwondo demonstration team is supposed to visit the North in mid-September," said Kim Moo-cheon, planning manager of the Korea Taekwondo Association (KTA). Kim said the KTA will soon consult with the Ministry of Culture and Tourism about the formation of a South Korean delegation. After three days of inter-Korean ministerial talks in Seoul, the two sides agreed Wednesday on sports exchanges involving taekwondo and soccer, as well as working-level talks on this fall's Busan Asian Games. As a follow-up to the agreement, South and North Korean working-level officials met Saturday at the North's Mt. Geumgang to discuss North Korea's participation in the Busan Asian Games. The Meeting are scheduled to continue until today. Another set of working-level talks are also under way at Mt. Geumgang to discuss the proposed inter-Korean friendly soccer match, scheduled for Sept. 7 in Seoul. The 10-point agreement calls on the South to send a taekwondo demonstration team to Pyongyang in mid-September, with North Korea reciprocating in late October. South and North Korea agreed last year on the taekwondo exchange program, but political conflicts have delayed its implementation. "We asked our working-level delegates, now at Mt. Geumgang, to deliver our position to the Northern side," Kim said. Meanwhile, Kim Un-yong, a senior member of the International Olympic Committee (IOC), said he will meet with Chang Ung, North Korea's sole IOC member, in Monaco Aug. 23 to discuss pending bilateral sports issues. On July 29, Chang sent a letter to Kim, who also serves as head of the General Association of International Sports Federations (GAISF), proposing a meeting between the IOC members on inter-Korean sports cooperation and exchanges around Aug. 20 in Monaco, where the GAISF headquarters is located. Chang, who also serves as vice chairman of North Korea's Sports and Physical Culture Guidance Committee, last met Kim in Pyongyang in June last year, when the latter led a Korean Olympic Committee sports delegation to exchange opinions on ways to expand inter-Korean sports exchange and cooperation. The two played a crucial role in allowing South and North Korean athletes and officials to march together under a unified flag during the opening ceremony of the 2000 Sydney Olympic Games. sjkang@koreaherald.co.kr By Kang Seok-jae Staff reporter --__--__-- _______________________________________________ The_Dojang mailing list The_Dojang@martialartsresource.net http://martialartsresource.net/mailman/listinfo/the_dojang http://the-dojang.net It's a great day for Taekwondo! Support the USTU by joining today. US Taekwondo Union, 1 Olympic Plaza, Ste 104C, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909 719-866-4632 FAX 719-866-4642 ustutkd1@aol.com http://www.ustu.org Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2002: Ray Terry and http://MartialArtsResource.com Standard disclaimers apply. Remember 9-11! End of The_Dojang Digest